I've been asked to make a purchase or leave places.
Are you kidding me? Where. Multiple places? This has happened to you more than once?
Like I say, I can imagine it happening at a ma and pa shop, so CFR. But not at a chain.
I was refused service once at an authentic mexican restaurant quite obviously because I was white. You should be happy to hear that one.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
Even if it's not a Starbucks, how many times have you seen someone denied a water cup or restroom use at a fast-food chain for not ordering -- or pressured to order something first?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
cinepro wrote:Instead of (or in addition to) training their employees about racism and treating customers with respect, it might not be a bad idea to teach the managers how to deal with situations like that and recognize when things are escalating and how to dial the situation back.
So many times I've been asked to provide training for things that just come down to idiosyncratic performance issues regarding things that should've been learned in elementary school. "Don't treat black people like dangerous animals" is not something you need training for, and if you do, we better think really carefully if any training is actually going to accomplish much.
I think we just have a single bad manager that created a PR nightmare for a company, and they are responded to it with the magic HR bullet of "Training!"
Oddly enough, the issue you are talking about, how to deescalate power and control situations, is something I literally train people in. What I teach is geared towards service providers to cognitively disabled adults, but the principles are the same. I'm not convinced power and control training would've defused the situation here. Not everyone can be fixed. Again, this very well just might be a bad apple. How many Starbucks locations are there in the country? 12,000? More? How much does this store manager make? 40k? You're going to get some screwups. I'd be interested to know if there's something more systemic going on, but we don't have any evidence in hand that there is.
Even if it's not a Starbucks, how many times have you seen someone denied a water cup or restroom use at a fast-food chain for not ordering -- or pressured to order something first?
It happens. I bet it happens more often to people the people running the establishment regards as potential hoodlums. I get your point. It's just normally tolerated all around. How often is anyone anywhere getting called out on being at a restaurant for a few minutes without ordering? It's just that Starbucks actively cultivates an atmosphere that encourages this. You might say that it is their business model.
I'm not a coffee drinker, but I've had meetings in coffee shops, including Starbucks, where I got there first and just waited for my party to arrive before getting a tea or whatever. Not only did no one say anything to me about this, I'd be shocked if they did. I wouldn't put up a fight about it. I'd just mentally note never to go there again, which is why they wouldn't do that to me. But if I reasonably suspected it was a racial thing, I'd probably stand my ground.
I used to work as a dispatcher in an alarm monitoring Central Station. There was one Bank Manager from an Asian Bank on the west side of town, which is primarily Asian and White. Any time a Black man would walk into the bank, he would call our Central Station, and say in a sotto voice "Uh, there's a black man that just walked in. If our alarm goes off, please dispatch immediately." This happened many times, with many different operators.
One day I was training a new dispatcher, who was black, and the Bank Manager called in with my trainee listening in, and gave his standard spiel, "Uh, a black man just walked in..." After he hung up, I felt a little embarrassed for the trainee, and I started going off "Man, anytime someone with a tan walks into that guy's bank..."
BAM! The alarm for the bank goes off. It was a bank robbery.
=============
...another time I got a call from a rural convenience store: "Uh, there' some guy's in here that are playing pin ball, and you know..."
"What, exactly?"
"Well, they're reading magazines, and drinking slurpies, and you know..."
"Did they pay for the slurpies?"
"Yeah, but they're laughing and joking and you know..."
"What, exactly?"
"They're black."
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization." - Will Durant "We've kept more promises than we've even made" - Donald Trump "Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist." - Edwin Land
Even if it's not a Starbucks, how many times have you seen someone denied a water cup or restroom use at a fast-food chain for not ordering -- or pressured to order something first?
There was some disagreement at one of the shops I worked at temporarilly that was being remodeled on whether or not we had to provide a restroom for the patients. I know most gas stations will deny you the restroom or a cup of water unless you buy. It's also written, "No public restroom." Now the question is can you enforce the policy or not? From the looks of this case you cannot. Anyone who wants to keep their job at Starbucks knows based on the precedent set by this case that you can't deny the restroom to noncustomers. You can ask them to leave but you can't call the police if they refuse.
David Wohl still thinks this manager has a good defamation case against Howard Schultz. He also said on the Ingraham angle that this was Starbucks policy that she followed. Will a Philadelphia jury side with the manager? Probably not, but my guess is that Starbucks has secretly paid her off. Howard Schultz get out your checkbook.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
ajax18 wrote: Anyone who wants to keep their job at Starbucks knows based on the precedent set by this case that you can't deny the restroom to noncustomers. You can ask them to leave but you can't call the police if they refuse.
You keep missing the part of not doing this in a racially discriminatory fashion. You can't, as this Starbucks supposedly was doing, allow white people show up and not pay until friends arrive, but kick black people out for doing the same.
Starbucks isn't going to all of a sudden start aggressively policing a "buy right now or get the heck out" policy because their business model is creating a casual hang-out that profits on repeat business. But if it did, it'd just have to do it in a way that doesn't discriminate.
David Wohl still thinks this manager has a good defamation case against Howard Schultz.
David Wohl is a clown who says ridiculous things on a daily basis. He's a punchline in the more respectable parts of, um, society. You might've as well said "Ajax thinks." It would've carried as much weight.
I've seen homeless people use the restroom of businesses to bathe. They use the whole role of paper towels, steal the toilet paper. They'll even set tents up on the sidewalk or under the side of your roof? Can you ask them to leave? Can you call the police if they refuse? I guess not if you want to keep your job.
There was one store in Mobile, Alabama where the customers would defecate in the sinks. One boy stopped up the sinks with paper towels, turned on the water, and left. It costs the owners $3k. That was one time I was glad I didn't own the place.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
You can't, as this Starbucks supposedly was doing, allow white people show up and not pay until friends arrive, but kick black people out for doing the same.
Is there any proof of this other than anecdotal stories we've shared of our own experiences? And wasn't the reason the confrontation started after 2 minutes because they wanted to use the bathroom and Starbucks had a lock on it. That wasn't just the managers idea to put a lock on the bathroom. That came down from on high from corporate.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
I can't quite put my finger on it... There's a philosophy that doesn't allow for private ownership of property. Man. It's on the tip of my tongue. I think it was some German guy's thing, but Germans were Nazis so I'm not sure. Anyway, we should levy the power of the state to force private businesses into capitulating to the whims of non-paying customers who're complete and utter assholes based on historical injustices. That would show everyone how progressive we are. You know. By taking away our freedom to operate a business as we see fit.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.