Jeff Sessions is out

[_EAllusion]

The context is completely different. When Graham said that Mueller had barely been appointed. He had not been given a chance to do anything. Since that time it's been a proven political witch hunt that has turned up exactly nothing other than partisan hacks within the FBI/DOJ and fodder for leftist media.

The Mueller investigation has produced multiple convictions, indictments, and guilty pleas from important figures within the Trump campaign and Russian actors and has revealed a web of evidence that strongly suggests more is there. This statement exists in an alternate reality. If your argument is, "Graham's change of opinion is best explained as being a reaction to the Mueller investigation finding nothing..." that's based on ignorance or lies. Moreoever, this isn't the only example of Graham completely 180'ing on his statements on Trump. For another example, he once called Trump a race-baiting xenophobic bigot, which is accurate enough. Then just recently he asserted that he never heard him make a racist statement and grabbed his fainting couch over the suggestion that he might have a problem with racism. This is part of a pattern of going from a sometimes strong Trump critic to a lickspittle very quickly.

[_Water Dog]

The Mueller investigation has produced multiple convictions and guilty pleas from important figures within the Trump campaign and has revealed a web of evidence that strongly suggests more is there. This statement exists in an alternate reality. If your argument is, "Graham's change of opinion is best explained as being a reaction to the Mueller investigation finding nothing..." that's based on ignorance or lies. Moreoever, this isn't the only example of Graham completely 180'ing on his statements on Trump. For another example, he once called Trump a race-baiting xenophobic bigot, which is accurate enough. Then just recently he asserted that he never heard him make a racist statement and grabbed his fainting couch over the suggestion that he might have a problem with racism. This is part of a pattern of going from a sometimes strong Trump critic to a lickspittle very quickly.

This is total nonsense. There have been no relevant convictions or pleas whatsoever. Go ahead, name them. You've got some perjury trap pleas which are about Scooter Libby process "crimes." Manufactured crimes. Hello, knock knock, aren't you a libertarian supposedly? The idea that lying to an FBI agent would be a crime is something that ought to offend you. What else have you got? Manafort. The campaign manager Trump himself terminated. Charges which have nothing to do with collusion or Trump. And charges which also are quite stupid, like failing to register as a lobbyist. An almost never enforced law that quite a long list of people are guilty of breaking if we were to cast a net out. Something elected pols are guilty of every day, but somehow this law doesn't apply to them. There is nothing interesting or suggestive here at all. The only thing suggestive is what's been turned up by the House oversight investigation. What was the basis for the FISA warrants? What's with all these democratic operatives within the FBI and DOJ? That's highly suggestive. Did democrats seriously pay for a document that was then used to get surveillance warrants on Trump? That's pretty damned scandalous. Why the hell don't you want to investigate that? I mean it sort of has to be one or the other, right? Either Trump really is a Russian agent, or, the opposite, it is a witch hunt. So either Trump belongs in jail. Or democrats do.

[_moksha]

Someday someone's gonna write the story of all this. It will show that Obama screwed democrats for a lifetime. He thought he was smarter than our process and didn't understand the political reality. Living in a bubble, sooner or later you suffocate.

Trump is going to go down in history as the most despicable, embarrassing, corrupt President to ever hold office.

Water Dog and other conservatives will still continue to support Trump no matter how guilty or disgraced he becomes.

[_MeDotOrg]

"If Jeff Sessions is fired, there will be holy hell to pay." - Lindsey Graham in 2017

"I look forward to working with President @realDonaldTrump to find a confirmable, worthy successor so that we can start a new chapter at the Department of Justice and deal with both the opportunities and challenges our nation faces." - Lindsey Graham in 2018

I'd love to know what turned Graham into a Trump toady. It happened almost instantly and was Orwellian in its thanking Trump for raising chocolate rations totality. What the hell happened that produced that?

Ah, the miracles of Modern Science. Senator Graham had his spine removed, and still he walks upright! Or perhaps we're devolving into invertebrates?

[_Chap]

I mean it sort of has to be one or the other, right? Either Trump really is a Russian agent, or, the opposite, it is a witch hunt. So either Trump belongs in jail. Or democrats do.

Nope. This is not an 'A or not-A' issue.

The question being investigated is the possibility that Russia attempted a significant degree of interference in the US electoral process. If they did, the American people need to be told of what nature was that interference. And did anybody on the Trump team know about it? If so, who, how much did they know, and when? If they did know, did they passively or actively assist those efforts in any way, and if so in what way?

As for Trump, was Trump made aware of (or become aware of) any such Russian interference at any stage? Was he aware of any active collaboration with such interference within his campaign team? If there was such collaboration with Russian interference, and he was not aware, was this because he failed in proper prudence and due diligence in ensuring that his campaign was run in a legal and proper way? If there was a policy of 'work with the Russians and don't tell Trump' in his campaign organisation, was this policy established with any active or passive connivance on his part?

And so on, and so forth. As for the consequences of the investigation for Trump: they could go all the way from jail to total exoneration. In between there is an infinite gradation going from mild finger-wagging to outright condemnation (short of criminal conviction) for sheer blind stupidity in not realising what was going on under his nose, or the open encouragement of a 'do what has to be done but don't tell me' policy amongst his team.

Trump doesn't want to risk any of those negative consequences, and the effort he is putting into discrediting and if possible shutting down Mueller suggests that total exoneration is not what he is expecting Mueller's final report to produce. And he would know what the reasons for that would be, wouldn't he?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

There's just no way to pare this issue down to digestible bullet points, but I'll try:

1) For no reason, whatsoever, Donald Trump replaced Sessions with Whitaker. Ain't like Sessions wasn't a Trump loyalist (do you remember his campaign support of Trump before everyone else?).

1a) As head of the DOJ, Sessions recused himself from the investigation, passing all decision making down to the next man in line, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. This didn't sit well with Trump.

2) Russia probe began in May 2017 by Robert Mueller, a registered Republican. Trump flips his crap for the next year and a half.

Second Amendment) Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani claimed all sorts of insane, rambling, BS about every aspect of the investigation. It was embarrassing.

3) Trump's attacks on Sessions become more urgent. Basically his tweets are, "Sessions is a dick! No Collusion!" Sessions keeps moving forward with dignity.

4) Reminder, Manafort and Cohen, were arrested based on information found as a result of the Russia probe.

5) Democrats win the House, and one day later, Sessions resigned from his role as Attorney General. HRM. THAT'S WEIRD. Why would Trump 'request-resign' Sessions when he lost control of the House?*

5a) Note if Sessions were fired Rosenstein, by law, would've taken over. No damned way Trump wants that. So he installs Whitaker.

5b) * The Senate isn't in session, which means Whitaker counts as a recess appointment; if he chooses to, he can shut down the Mueller investigation altogether. HE HAS UNTIL THE NEXT SESSION AND CONFIRMATION HEARING TO DO THIS.

5c) Senator Graham claimed if Jeff Sessions were fired there would be 'holy hell to pay'. Oh, really? Graham rolls over like a whipped dog. It's pathetic.

6) There have been a lot of matters that arose out of the Mueller investigation which are too numerous to go over on this post. Just google it if you need a reminder.

In summary, Trump installed a crony to oversee the investigation. By replacing Rosenstein with Whitaker Trump has undercut the independence of the investigation. Whitaker has publicly outlined strategies to stifle the investigation and cannot be allowed to remain in charge of it.

So, what do?

Liberals are going to don their pink pussy caps and march around a bit, transgenders will photograph themselves naked and send out pictures on Twitter because they're brave, and our board Leftists will froth at the mouth and pound out some missives to expiate themselves of our national sin.

January is a loooooong way off, man. Whitaker was the 'eyes and ears' of the Trump administration in the Department of Justice, so... you know. So much for impartiality.

If there's an end game, and if you actually give a crap about our justice system, all you can really do is hope Mueller has his ducks in a row, because I wouldn't be surprised if this investigation gets de-funded or hamstrung by Whitaker (I don't know if Trump has the balls to actually just shut it down).

- Doc

[_Water Dog]

1) For no reason, whatsoever, Donald Trump replaced Sessions with Whitaker. Ain't like Sessions wasn't a Trump loyalist (do you remember his campaign support of Trump before everyone else?).

See, you lost me with your very first bullet point. This isn't true, Trump had very good cause to fire Sessions. One, he shouldn't have recused to begin with, but we'll ignore that for now. Two, over the past year and a half the House investigation has uncovered a disturbing network of partisan activists within DOJ/FBI. Sessions did nothing. DOJ works for the president, not the other way around. These people continuously stonewalled document requests, etc. People who were shown to have acted improperly continued to remain employed. It took forever before they finally canned Strzok. Has Bruce Ohr been fired yet or is he still there? Why hasn't the House been provided the documents it has requested? Three, and then you've got NYT running stories claiming that Rosenstein is talking about wearing wires and invoking the 25th amendment. Not good. Is there any truth to that? Four, all the leaks. Mueller's investigation seems to leak like a sieve. What would be the reason for that, other than politics?

1a) As head of the DOJ, Sessions recused himself from the investigation, passing all decision making down to the next man in line, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. This didn't sit well with Trump.

I don't disagree with this, but also don't see the relevance. Trump is perfectly within his right to fire anybody and everybody, or even just outright order the investigation shuttered. The only cost is political. We have three branches of government - not four. The left may not like that, but tough crap. Conservatives wanted Obama's DOJ to investigate certain things and they didn't get their way. Talk about a conflict of interest, this is why Holder was held in contempt. The very guy who's supposed to act on a contempt order is refusing to open an investigation. LOL. That's a situation where you'd think maybe he'd recuse, or Obama would order him to step aside, appoint someone else, but no. Everybody just rolled their eyes.

What about this is different?

2) Russia probe began in May 2017 by Robert Mueller, a registered Republican. Trump flips his crap for the next year and a half.

Rightfully so. Doc, brother, he should flip his crap. Even just for sake of argument, put yourself in the frame of mind of Trump, assuming it's all BS. You're Trump. And you know that you didn't "collude" with Russia. You are not some Russian agent. Half the media is talking 24/7 about how you're an illegitimate president. Members of your own party are citing the investigation as justification to not work with you on policy issues. And not only that, but these people are literally trying to conjure up some way to even put you or your family members in jail. To do substantial harm to your business and personal life. We're not just damned around here, this isn't a game.

You wouldn't flip your crap? If Trump didn't flip his crap, he'd be irresponsible if not inhuman. As President, it is his sworn constitutional duty to not allow this kind of thing to go on. Plus he's a person like all of us. If someone were damned with me on that level I'd be a little upset by it.

Second Amendment) Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani claimed all sorts of insane, rambling, BS about every aspect of the investigation. It was embarrassing.

That's politics. Mueller's camp was leaking stuff. Media was punting those footballs. This was their counter-offensive without firing Mueller. Because the fight has always been about the political optics.

3) Trump's attacks on Sessions become more urgent. Basically his tweets are, "Sessions is a dick! No Collusion!" Sessions keeps moving forward with dignity.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Sessions is a good guy in my opinion, but he didn't have the temperament for this battle. If Sessions truly had dignity he would have resigned of his own accord on day one realizing he can't serve President. 24 year veteran of the senate, he should have been the writing on the wall and walked. But he chose his ego instead. You're basically just griping about Trump's style re Twitter, yawn.

4) Reminder, Manafort and Cohen, were arrested based on information found as a result of the Russia probe.

Yeah, so? This is meaningless. If we were to open a special investigation into the DNC and just dig and dig and dig all sorts of people would shake out. You damn well know that. We're not a police state. Cohen may be a slimy lawyer. Manafort may be a tax cheat or whatever. I don't care. We had an election. The point of the election was certain issues - like immigration, like budgets, like trade. Democrats don't get to hold our system hostage because they don't like the results of a completely lawful and legitimate election. You don't get to undermine the whole thing because you want to make Trump look bad. This has always been about making excuses for a manifestly awful candidate.

5) Democrats win the House, and one day later, Sessions resigned from his role as Attorney General. HRM. THAT'S WEIRD. Why would Trump 'request-resign' Sessions when he lost control of the House?*

There's nothing weird about this. It was predictable. I predicted it, in fact. It has been widely discussed he would probably do this. And it wouldn't have mattered one whit whether House had shifted to Democrats or not. Trump has been wanting to fire Sessions since at least Nov/Dec 17. He was talked out of it, repeatedly, based on the argument of not damaging the GOP in the midterms. Midterms are over, so no more wasted time. He would be totally incompetent to allow this Russia nonsense to consume the remainder of his term. The fact that Sessions resigned also says something. If Sessions believed there was something there, he could have refused to resign and grandstanded instead.

5a) Note if Sessions were fired Rosenstein, by law, would've taken over. No damned way Trump wants that. So he installs Whitaker.

I expect Rosenstein will be out as well within days.

5b) * The Senate isn't in session, which means Whitaker counts as a recess appointment; if he chooses to, he can shut down the Mueller investigation altogether. HE HAS UNTIL THE NEXT SESSION AND CONFIRMATION HEARING TO DO THIS.

My understanding is that he can only terminate Mueller for cause. If there is cause, then cool, he should end it. At the very least they should put a timeline on it. Legally, these special investigations are quite dubious. I'm not sure how it should be addressed. A law change most likely.

5c) Senator Graham claimed if Jeff Sessions were fired there would be 'holy hell to pay'. Oh, really? Graham rolls over like a whipped dog. It's pathetic.

Context, context. Not only has the investigation revealed political motives, but Graham has himself during this time period been subject to the same treatment. What has Graham said? Surely he's commented in the last 24 hrs.

6) There have been a lot of matters that arose out of the Mueller investigation which are too numerous to go over on this post. Just google it if you need a reminder.

In this long list you haven't presented not even one relevant data point against Trump. Your evidence is literally just the mere existence of the investigation. Show me actual collusion. Show me that Trump is an illegitimate president. A year and a half long open-ended investigation. Where is the evidence?

In summary, Trump installed a crony to oversee the investigation. By replacing Rosenstein with Whitaker Trump has undercut the independence of the investigation. Whitaker has publicly outlined strategies to stifle the investigation and cannot be allowed to remain in charge of it.

So, what do?

Liberals are going to don their pink pussy caps and march around a bit, transgenders will photograph themselves naked and send out pictures on Twitter because they're brave, and our board Leftists will froth at the mouth and pound out some missives to expiate themselves of our national sin.

January is a loooooong way off, man. Whitaker was the 'eyes and ears' of the Trump administration in the Department of Justice, so... you know. So much for impartiality.

If there's an end game, and if you actually give a crap about our justice system, all you can really do is hope Mueller has his ducks in a row, because I wouldn't be surprised if this investigation gets de-funded or hamstrung by Whitaker (I don't know if Trump has the balls to actually just shut it down).

It's time for the investigation to put up or shut up. And if justice is what you care about, you should be calling for the investigation to run in all directions. It should include a similar investigation of democrats. Perhaps they are the ones who colluded with Russia. All of it needs to be made public. The full basis for the investigation to begin with needs to be made known. The full details of what was going on with folks like Comey needs to be made known. Was he playing dumb and lying to Congress? Did he hand classified information over to the media? I want every damned detail to be made public. And if Trump is guilty, sure, impeach him, burn him at the stake. I'll bring the matches. But I'm just not seeing what you think you're seeing. Maybe it's those biased media sources that control my mind. Or maybe it's the opposite.

[_EAllusion]

I don't know why you just don't assert that Jeff Sessions was a collaborator with a secret alien plot to invade Earth and be done with it.

[_Kevin Graham]

WD is too stupid to know the difference between the actions of an innocent man and the actions of someone who is guilty and has something to hide. Trump doesn't act like an innocent man and never has. He likes that he "flips his crap" because he thinks that shows he's innocent. No, it shows he is desperately terrified.

Why would an innocent person need to worry? The Mueller investigation hasn't even been newsworthy stuff for quite some time until Trump made it so yesterday. If I were him and if I were innocent I would have just left it alone and let it play itself out. All he is doing now is creating a Constitutional Crisis which isn't going to bode well for him or the country.

The Mueller probe has resulted in numerous indictments and convictions and WD thinks none of it should have happened because being a "nation of laws" and "respecting the rule of law" and "enforcing the rule of law" are only platitudes used by the Right in the context of brown immigrants. He is quite literally saying, yeah, Trump's cronies are all crooks but none should be indicted because they weren't like, serious crimes. Lying under oath is cool when you're an entitled white Republican lying for the greater good.

[_Water Dog]

I don't know why you just don't assert that Jeff Sessions was a collaborator with a secret alien plot to invade Earth and be done with it.

Haha, how's that? You're the one promoting a 9/11 truth conspiracy, but I'm the tin foil? ROFL, I'm the one rejecting the crazy conspiracy! Hahah. Thanks for the laugh. I'll tell you what. I'll make a pledge right now. If you, or anyone here, can produce a single shred of hard evidence proving that Trump is an agent of the Russian government, I will vote for whoever the democrat candidate is in 2020. I'll give you my senate vote too. I think Cornyn is up in 20.