Should Democrats Impeach?

[_EAllusion]

One of the other practical considerations that militates in favor of impeachment is Donald Trump is desperate to, in his words, "turn the tables" and use the powers of his office to go after his political opposition. He's filled with unhinged recriminations and is demanding action. People are just ignoring that he is ranting in the media over and over like a crazy dictator. People's basis for ignoring it seems to be awkwardly accepting it as just Trump being wacky Trump. I don't think this should be dismissed as just impotent rants, though. He's telling you who he is. Believe him. One of the few tools Democrats have to rebuff this is the public scrutiny of impeachment hearings. If they stand down, they're inviting what Trump is openly saying he wants.

The Mueller Report found that at least on 3 separate occasions Trump tried to pressure Jeff Sessions to prosecute Hillary Clinton (without basis). That in of itself is, in the words of Benjamin Wittes, "molten-core impeachment" territory. But more than that, it's a sign of things to come if he gets away with trying it as he gets more and more efficient at having his people in seats of power.

[_EAllusion]

Here is a Twitter thread linking clips of Trump's interview with Hannity last night. As the commentator notes, Trump comes off like a dictator making a speech on state TV. Not only is it absolutely nuts, but the theme is one of recriminations and going after political enemies. As the commentator also notes, countries with leaders like this don't typically end up having free and fair elections.

If there isn't maximum scrutiny, that just invites Trump to be more bold with his rotten impulses.

[_Xenophon]

Hi Kevin,

You're right, I messed that up.

Overall, I think you made a few points that have caused me to reconsider. Most notably, that the Mueller report sets up Congress to formalize the investigation of whether or not Trump should be impeached which is their role. In many ways, I was jumping too quickly over the process of investigating and going right to the implications of the House voting for impeachment rather than thinking over the question of whether or not the process itself served a necessary purpose that the Mueller report supported. You gave me reason to reconsider my position.

I 100% credit the Mueller report with shifting my position on the topic. Prior to the release I was very sympathetic to the idea that it wasn't politically expedient and that 2020 would be sufficient. However given all the things that were either new (a few things) or affirmed to be true during the investigation (a ton of things) combined with Mueller's multiple references to Congress's role in what should be to come I had to come down on the other side of the fence.

I've appreciated the debate that has gone on in this thread though, lots to chew on.

[_Kevin Graham]

It is significant that even FOX News's top legal authority has determined the President committed crimes multiple times.

Fox’s Napolitano Says Barr is ‘Wrong’ on Obstruction: Trump’s Actions ‘Unlawful, Defenseless and Condemnable’

[_subgenius]

It is significant that even FOX News's top legal authority has determined the President committed crimes multiple times.

Fox’s Napolitano Says Barr is ‘Wrong’ on Obstruction: Trump’s Actions ‘Unlawful, Defenseless and Condemnable’

you might want to research this board for your opinion on people who agree with Fox News...cause you're one of them now.

[_subgenius]

[_moksha]

I get it. Rep. Bubba Jones (R-Ark) leaves a time for the wakeup call and the next morning he gets a call from an agent in St. Petersburg filling his head with trumpery.

[_honorentheos]

[_Some Schmo]

I'm having one of those days when it's harder than usual to remember that not every Republican is a damned moron; some of them are just assholes.

[_MeDotOrg]

How things proceed will probably depend on the success of Trump's efforts to block subordinates from testifying and halting subpoenas of his bank records from the IRS, Deutsche Bank and Capital One.

If the House can obtain his financial records within the next month, and there is enough testimony to move hearings forward, I think you will see the slow exposition of additional information that could lay the grounds for impeachment. If Trump's White House is successful in delaying the release of significant information for a long period of time, the impeachment process then becomes the only option for obtaining his financial records. At that point I believe even the President has to put his cards on the table.

Impeachment without the exposition of his financial records and other testimony before the impeachment process will make the process appear more partisan from the outset. How much harder it will be do have a successful impeachment at that point will depend on the nature of the business and tax practices revealed.