NBC news story on Hunter Biden

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K Graham
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by K Graham »

Hard to imagine how anyone could possibly come up with the idea that the Hunter Biden Laptop story derived from Russian disinformation when the people who had the data refused to prove what was in it and then you have dozens of intel officials write a letter stating their belief that this has all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation:

October 19, 2020
Hunter Biden story is Russian disinfo, dozens of former intel officials say
More than 50 former senior intelligence officials have signed on to a letter outlining their belief that the recent disclosure of emails allegedly belonging to Joe Biden’s son “has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.”

The letter, signed on Monday, centers around a batch of documents released by the New York Post last week that purport to tie the Democratic nominee to his son Hunter’s business dealings. Under the banner headline “Biden Secret E-mails,” the Post reported it was given a copy of Hunter Biden’s laptop hard drive by President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who said he got it from a Mac shop owner in Delaware who also alerted the FBI.

While the letter’s signatories presented no new evidence, they said their national security experience had made them “deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case” and cited several elements of the story that suggested the Kremlin’s hand at work.

“If we are right,” they added, “this is Russia trying to influence how Americans vote in this election, and we believe strongly that Americans need to be aware of this.”

Nick Shapiro, a former top aide under CIA director John Brennan, provided POLITICO with the letter on Monday. He noted that “the IC leaders who have signed this letter worked for the past four presidents, including Trump. The real power here however is the number of former, working-level IC officers who want the American people to know that once again the Russians are interfering.
Last edited by K Graham on Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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honorentheos
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by honorentheos »

I think this is really the most important paragraph from the letter, followed closely by the one preceding it regarding the sanctity of protecting our elections from outside interference.

We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal aSorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case.

Too many want to frame this as a binary rejection or acceptance of the emails and the laptop. While many may have engaged in those types of statements on both sides, the professionals involved were urging caution regarding both the emails as well as the danger of allowing speculation to influence the election.
honorentheos
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by honorentheos »

Perhaps this issue is as difficult as it is may be due to the divided views of how Russian influence was present in the 2016 election. Much of the reaction to the October surprise of the Hunter Biden laptop and reticence of the Trump affiliates to sharing the evidence in total for verification came from the very real role broadcast, print, and social media had been played as pawns in distribution of the information that undermined the Clinton campaign. Nor is it deniable that James Comey announcing the FBI was reopening that investigating into Clinton's email server just before the electron had no influence on Trump winning. But there are plenty of folks who dismiss Russian influence in 2016 as they didn't have a Russian in the booth with them forcing them to pull the lever for Trump. Or, you know, the Russians didn't hack the voting machines in 2016...but that gives us an idea...anywho.

The lessons learned from 2016 and the reactions they influenced make sense to those who view the 2016 election as influenced by foreign governments favorable to a Trump victory. To others, they may seem an extension of the believed conspiracy driving the so-called witch hunt and FBI attempt to take down the Trump presidency if one is already inclined to believe that is what happened before.

The divide between views on this issue go far back, well before the laptop was dropped off.

And this is why I believe the only fruitful discussion possible is around the supposed evidence in the claimed emails and what they show to be likely when it comes to Joe Biden. Hunter isn't a model citizen by any stretch of the imagination. It isn't news that he sold his name for the belief it could also purchase influence. So, where is the the evidence of influence? We've beat the Ukraine claims to death and anyone who can't see Shokin was using threats of investigation to blackmail companies and then letting investigations stall out if he succeeded is blind. His deputy resigned, he was shot at during a protest over corruption, the EU and the US government saw him as a hurdle to overcoming corruption in the Ukraine, yet we still hear those who believe his interview with a Russian affiliated channel counters that so it's possible Biden leveraged the world to oust an honest AG who was a threat to Burisma. That's mind boggling 4D chess Biden pulled off if that alternative history were actually fact.
K Graham
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by K Graham »

honorentheos wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:06 pm
Perhaps this issue is as difficult as it is may be due to the divided views of how Russian influence was present in the 2016 election. Much of the reaction to the October surprise of the Hunter Biden laptop and reticence of the Trump affiliates to sharing the evidence in total for verification came from the very real role broadcast, print, and social media had been played as pawns in distribution of the information that undermined the Clinton campaign. Nor is it deniable that James Comey announcing the FBI was reopening that investigating into Clinton's email server just before the electron had no influence on Trump winning. But there are plenty of folks who dismiss Russian influence in 2016 as they didn't have a Russian in the booth with them forcing them to pull the lever for Trump. Or, you know, the Russians didn't hack the voting machines in 2016...but that gives us an idea...anywho.

The lessons learned from 2016 and the reactions they influenced make sense to those who view the 2016 election as influenced by foreign governments favorable to a Trump victory. To others, they may seem an extension of the believed conspiracy driving the so-called witch hunt and FBI attempt to take down the Trump presidency if one is already inclined to believe that is what happened before.

The divide between views on this issue go far back, well before the laptop was dropped off.

And this is why I believe the only fruitful discussion possible is around the supposed evidence in the claimed emails and what they show to be likely when it comes to Joe Biden. Hunter isn't a model citizen by any stretch of the imagination. It isn't news that he sold his name for the belief it could also purchase influence. So, where is the the evidence of influence? We've beat the Ukraine claims to death and anyone who can't see Shokin was using threats of investigation to blackmail companies and then letting investigations stall out if he succeeded is blind. His deputy resigned, he was shot at during a protest over corruption, the EU and the US government saw him as a hurdle to overcoming corruption in the Ukraine, yet we still hear those who believe his interview with a Russian affiliated channel counters that so it's possible Biden leveraged the world to oust an honest AG who was a threat to Burisma. That's mind boggling 4D chess Biden pulled off if that alternative history were actually fact.
Also, if he were getting paid for influencing his Dad, then wouldn't it make more sense to keep him on the BOD and keep paying him while his Dad became President?
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honorentheos
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by honorentheos »

K Graham wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:17 pm

Also, if he were getting paid for influencing his Dad, then wouldn't it make more sense to keep him on the BOD and keep paying him while his Dad became President?
Certainly.

This also gets to another problem inherent in these discussions: American narcissism. The issues surrounding Ukraine and corruption are entangled with US interests but they are hardly an issue best understood by looking at the facts from the lens of how they affect the interests of partisans in the US. They are first and foremost best understood when looked at from the lens of how they benefit the individuals involved in the Ukraine. Manafort is interesting for his finding a way to profit off those internal dynamics. The uber-wealthy involved in all of the corruption and scandal that robbed the country of Ukraine for a decade or more are really representative of how detached global wealthy elite have become from concepts of citizenship and shared society.
Markk
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by Markk »

honorentheos wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:41 pm
Markk wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:24 pm


Ok, I stand corrected, it was the democratic congress and liberal media that was spreading the lie?
More specifically, Adam Schiff asserted it was a fabrication, the DOJ and FBI were acknowledged to have the laptop, and Schiff changed his claims.

The media is hardly a monolithic entity that can be said to have made any single claim universally.
But equally you do not understand a lot of things either. You didn’t even know, nor did Res, that the FBI had the lap top..in fact you had to google around and find that Ratcliffe agreed with the FBI and DoJ it was not Russian disinformation, and finally find it on a conservative site. This speaks a lot to just how muzzle this was and who owned the narrative which was a flat out lie.
You're right that I had forgotten that detail. It is irrelevant to the issue, though, and in the time since we hashed through this with you before that wasn't meaningful. It only seems meaningful of you believe there is a mass conspiracy. But that requires significant ignorance regarding policies and behaviors that your conjecture paints into living, breathing, and breeding bunny rabbits hopping around in the clouds.

You want to turn the corner to evidence Joe Biden is compromised? The emails claiming he had a meeting with a Ukrainian contact of Hunter has been shown to be at most the potential they both attended a 12-person dinner party. China? Further emails show Hunter saying the potential deal was given a hard no.

You want to argue that Hunter Biden has bad judgement? There's no argument with me. Hunter Biden is a bad judgement powder keg of a person. Some say it comes from trauma associated with his mother and sibling being killed in a car accident where he was present and seriously injured when he was young. Whatever it is, it isn't a Joe Biden scandal.
What I do understand is right and wrong, and we can credit Trump with a lot of wrong…but in this case he was 100% correct that the laptop was Hunters and more importantly that it was NOT Russian disinformation, and that as the article states the democrats in congress were the ones feeding the propaganda that it was Russian disinformation.
Again, the issue was the people with the hard drives pushing the narrative of scandal were also refusing to share the electronic copies of the emails. The PDFs that were shared had 2019 in their metadata and looked suspect.
Some of this is starting to come back and sounds familiar, as I am sure it is with you…but Adam Schiff sat/sits as chairman of the intelligence committee, he was told it was a lie, but still told the American people, flat out, it was from the Kremlin. You went through that video I pasted earlier where the left wing media was apparently parroting Schiff. This is so wrong from so many angles.
Markk, step out of the smoke and discuss the fire. What is actually of concern here regarding the laptop and it's contents related to Joe Biden?
More specifically, Adam Schiff asserted it was a fabrication, the DOJ and FBI were acknowledged to have the laptop, and Schiff changed his claims.

The media is hardly a monolithic entity that can be said to have made any single claim universally.
He didn’t just assert anything…he flat out said over and over, and I assume still does in that I haven’t heard any detraction or apology. I think I got this correct here…The DOJ, FBI and and the director of National intelligence, said that it was Hunter Biden laptop and HD, and that there was no evidence of Russian Disinformation…but Schiff, who was House committee chairman on intelligence, and is advised on top secrete and other highly sensitive “things,” by the office of the director doubled down and said it was Russian disinformation over and over.

I didn’t say they made a “single claim universally”…I said the “left wing” media championed the disinformation story and I gave a long video of misc clips proving this.

You can’t have it one way and say that Russia can, through right wing media, spread disinformation, then deny that the left can’t. The difference is I can objectively show that the left jumped all over the Schiff propaganda (that’s what it is), and I can equally show that Schiff was dead wrong.
Markk
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by Markk »

Honor wrote…You want to argue that Hunter Biden has bad judgement? There's no argument with me. Hunter Biden is a bad judgement powder keg of a person. Some say it comes from trauma associated with his mother and sibling being killed in a car accident where he was present and seriously injured when he was young. Whatever it is, it isn't a Joe Biden scandal.
How do you know, that Joe Biden is not “the Big Guy?”
Markk
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by Markk »

Again, the issue was the people with the hard drives pushing the narrative of scandal were also refusing to share the electronic copies of the emails. The PDFs that were shared had 2019 in their metadata and looked suspect.
Not it’s not, the issue is what is on the hard drives. You are creating a diversion or straw-man to avoid what the real issue is…the information that is on the hard drive.
Markk
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by Markk »

Honor wrote…Markk, step out of the smoke and discuss the fire. What is actually of concern here regarding the laptop and it's contents related to Joe Biden?
The Fire is the context of the hard drives…and other stories. Who is the BIG Guy?
honorentheos
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Re: NBC news story on Hunter Biden

Post by honorentheos »

Markk: the issue is what is on the hard drives. You are creating a diversion or straw-man to avoid what the real issue is…the information that is on the hard drive.

Also Markk: The Fire is the context of the hard drives…and other stories.
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