Independence

[Some Schmo]

The only way I can explain to myself this ridiculous meme among the right is that they know so little about who Trump actually is, they hear the valid criticisms of him and haven't heard the underlying rational, so the criticisms sound hysterical.

That is the most forgiving I can be about people using this obviously idiotic term to describe anyone but one of Trump's fans. TDS is not in the DSM-5, but I'm guessing a mention of projection is.

[canpakes]

It would appear to come down to MAGA’s desire for Trump to appease their intense dislike of immigration,

Because I don't find you to be interesting to engage, I very rarely reply to your juvenile trolling drive byes. I am making an exception this time.

No worries. I’ll make you work to create your answers, so I don’t expect to see responses from you. : D

When you, and those like you, constantly attempt to paint millions of individual American citizens in such an awful light, you are not being listened to by the great majority of fair-minded rational people. Your toxic attempted demonization is rejected, and I am confident that I speak for many millions.

Truth (In case anyone else reading cares) - The intentionally suggested "intense dislike of immigration" is a gigantic pile of pure rot. Rather, Illegal immigration - Millions and millions of people - unvetted - no idea who they are - literally pouring into this country is completely out of control and it is absolutely unmanageable. It is so utterly insane on many levels. It is crushing an already overtaxed system. It is completely draining resources, and these tremendous amounts of resources should not be going to people who have broken into to this country uninvited and are that not American citizens.

Immigration has certainly seem some wild rates. Interestingly, it’s down significantly these days after some Biden Admin actions. The Republican Party had a chance to join the effort but ultimately rejected their own bipartisan work at Trump’s behest so that Trump could make it a campaign issue. I’d expect a Harris Administration to stick to the current plan, which would produce results similar to the Trump years and therefore be favorable in your own eyes.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-m ... hly-update

Regarding the backlog in applications: the Trump Administration made limited efforts to increase the number of immigration judges, but the backlog of cases increased two-and-a-half times between 2016 and 2020. Ask yourself how that could be the case if the Trump Admin was as effective at tackling the problem as they claim.

https://trac.syr.edu/reports/734/

The Biden Administration reportedly has since accelerated the acquisition of immigration judges and I’d expect that the trend would continue under a Harris Administration. I have much less confidence that a faster trend would occur under another Trump Administration. Again, the current Admin would seem to be addressing this issue more competently, by your own criteria.

The Trump Campaign’s advertised solution to the problem of ‘overtaxed resources’ is to deport some 20 million claimed immigrants. I’m not sure how that would be less expensive than working them through the citizenship process, or how such a mass deportation wouldn’t end up causing a detrimental hit to the economy along with spiking inflation, but I’m open to hear your analysis of the potential fallout.

[Some Schmo]

Also, to accuse others of having a distorted (deranged) view of Trump is basically to admit you are fine with his obvious lack of morality and competence, or choosing to ignore it because you want him to "lead" our country. After all, he's not that bad. That's the BS you want to tell yourself.

I can't think of anything more deranged. I mean, it's off the charts ridiculous and intellectually dishonest.

And this is why I think the GOP base is itching for a civil war. They don't want to compromise, they don't want get along, so they're willing to swim in BS for their cause, because angering people gets us to a war faster. The GOP is basically morphing into a domestic terrorist group.

[ceeboo]

Immigration has certainly seem some wild rates. Interestingly, it’s down significantly these days after some Biden Admin actions.

Absolutely mind-bending!

(Wondering why you keep calling it immigration when it's illegal immigration)

Again, the current Admin would seem to be addressing this issue more competently

Absolutely mind-bending!

[canpakes]

Immigration has certainly seem some wild rates. Interestingly, it’s down significantly these days after some Biden Admin actions.

Absolutely mind-bending!

(Wondering why you keep calling it immigration when it's illegal immigration)

I can call it ‘dirty, illegal, poisoning-the-blood-of-our-nation immigration’, if that would make you happier still.

Did you read from the link? Allow me to assist you:

U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) released operational statistics today for July 2024, which show a significant decline in migrant encounters during the first full month after a Presidential Proclamation issued June 4, 2024, by President Biden to temporarily suspend the entry of certain noncitizens across the southern border. U.S. Border Patrol encounters in July were 32% lower than in June 2024 and were the lowest monthly total along the southwest border since September 2020. July’s total numbers between ports of entry are also lower than July 2019, and lower than the monthly average for all of 2019, the last comparable year prior to the pandemic. CBP monthly reporting can be viewed on CBP’s Stats and Summaries webpage.

Mind bending, indeed.

Again, the current Admin would seem to be addressing this issue (the acquisition of immigration judges, -c) more competently

Absolutely mind-bending!

Feel free to make an opposing argument based on the current hiring.


And let me know how you think that plan to ‘remigrate*’ 20 million people will pan out.

*Trump’s newest dog whistle word to white nationalists

[ceeboo]

Absolutely mind-bending!

(Wondering why you keep calling it immigration when it's illegal immigration)

I can call it ‘dirty, illegal, poisoning-the-blood-of-our-nation immigration’, if that would make you happier still.

"Make me happier still?" Nice, another intentional attempt to suggest something wicked and vile about me. Due to that (not the first time), I will be making this the last time I respond to your toxic rhetoric. I knew better when I responded to you earlier in the thread.

I was thinking that calling it what it is - illegal immigration - is the most responsible thing to do because it is illegal and it's talking about immigration. Would you be being responsible to say that someone who parked in a fire lane was parking? Or would it be more responsible and accurate to call it illegal parking? You see, for some of us, words have meaning.

Lastly, to suggest that "the actions of the Biden Admin" ought to be praised - or applauded - or credited - for recent significant reduction of illegal border crossing, a few months prior to an election, after 20,000,000 plus illegal immigrants have poured into this country over the last 48 months and are now here is beyond utterly absurd. Biden and Harris have completely failed all of the US citizens - The very people - We The People - that they were elected to serve and protect. It's insanity!

[honorentheos]

Ceeboo,

Do you believe Trump acts in the interests of the American people?

I do.

Harris?

I just noticed the add.

I hold the view of the Federalists Papers that if all humans were angels we would have no need for government. And if we could be governed by angels we would have no need to have checks in government.

But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

So when we talk about governing in the interests of the people over their own, I care quite a bit about a person's respect for the actual mechanisms for ensuring our base nature is checked as embodied in the Constitution. It's what we have.

I believe Harris respects the Constitution. That is a minimum standard in think Trump fails.

I also happen to like many of the results of the Biden administration over all. So while I don't doubt Harris is ambitious I am confident her positions are tied to beliefs are for the general common good and not just manipulation to fleece her own pockets.

Trump? Clearly couldn't care less about the mechanisms of Democracy. We got to watch him first hand use government to enrich his businesses. His family ties to foreign governments are twins to the concerns fainting conservatives claim the Bidens are guilty of on imagined evidence.

But clearly your mileage varies there.

[ceeboo]

I do.

Harris?

I just noticed the add.

No worries - I added "Harris?" a few minutes after I posted the original - Thanks for coming back to reply.

I hold the view of the Federalists Papers that if all humans were angels we would have no need for government. And if we could be governed by angels we would have no need to have checks in government.

But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

So when we talk about governing in the interests of the people over their own, I care quite a bit about a person's respect for the actual mechanisms for ensuring our base nature is checked as embodied in the Constitution. It's what we have.

I believe Harris respects the Constitution. That is a minimum standard in think Trump fails.

I also happen to like many of the results of the Biden administration over all. So while I don't doubt Harris is ambitious I am confident her positions are tied to beliefs are for the general common good and not just manipulation to fleece her own pockets.

Trump? Clearly couldn't care less about the mechanisms of Democracy. We got to watch him first hand use government to enrich his businesses. His family ties to foreign governments are twins to the concerns fainting conservatives claim the Bidens are guilty of on imagined evidence.

But clearly your mileage varies there.

My mileage does vary, but as it relates to a country wide necessity and ability to be able to share various ideas, opinions, and perspectives with one another - civilly - My mileage ought to be seen as a grain of sand against a mile long sandy beach.

Given our opposing political views (as well as the significance to our country that rests right behind these views), I do indeed appreciate how you choose to interact with me. I notice it, I appreciate it, and I hope to model it.

[canpakes]

I can call it ‘dirty, illegal, poisoning-the-blood-of-our-nation immigration’, if that would make you happier still.

"Make me happier still?" Nice, another intentional attempt to suggest something wicked and vile about me. Due to that (not the first time), I will be making this the last time I respond to your toxic rhetoric. I knew better when I responded to you earlier in the thread.

This is exactly the language used by your candidate of choice. Are you saying that Trump is wicked and vile? It’s hard to keep up with how MAGA mixes up the meanings of words to suit their claim of the moment.

Still, this is around the time in our discussions - like we’ve done before - where you seem to run out of argument, then imagine that you’re the victim of some type of insult that hasn’t been made, and vow never to respond again. So be it.

I was thinking that calling it what it is - illegal immigration - is the most responsible thing to do because it is illegal and it's talking about immigration. Would you be being responsible to say that someone who parked in a fire lane was parking? Or would it be more responsible and accurate to call it illegal parking? You see, for some of us, words have meaning.

Like, ‘poisoning the blood of our nation’?

What do you see those words meaning?

(No worries; just joshing you. You’re off the hook and don’t need to respond, nor explain your acceptance of such rhetoric from the man you believe will ‘unify’ America).

Lastly, to suggest that "the actions of the Biden Admin" ought to be praised - or applauded - or credited - for recent significant reduction of illegal border crossing, a few months prior to an election, after 20,000,000 plus illegal immigrants have poured into this country over the last 48 months and are now here is beyond utterly absurd. Biden and Harris have completely failed all of the US citizens - The very people - We The People - that they were elected to serve and protect. It's insanity!

Ceeboo, I’m super-curious whose mid-height bodily orifice you’re pulling these figures from. Even the Center for Immigration Studies - widely regarded as an ‘anti-immigration’ think tank - doesn’t list numbers so utterly wild. This claim given for the last four years is … well, clearly bonkers. No rational person is making the same claim.

Like words, numbers have meaning, too. Usually, for most people. Yours do not, aside from representing propaganda designed to mislead. Why go there?

Anyhow, read it for yourself:

From 2022: https://cis.org/Report/Estimating-Illeg ... ion-Survey

Most recent, 2024: https://cis.org/Report/ForeignBorn-Popu ... -Two-Years

[Manetho]

The intentionally suggested "intense dislike of immigration" is a gigantic pile of pure rot.

Then why have Republicans spent the past two weeks demonizing the legal immigrants in Springfield, Ohio?