Calling it "Politically Motivated"

[Chap]

Adam Smith, rather a long time ago, pointed out that it would be perfectly possible for Scotland to produce its own wine rather than buying it from France. Only problem: huge production costs (glasshouses, fuel for same, and so on). Can't recall whether he added that it might not be as good, even then.

So better to buy it in from France.

His book was called 'The Wealth of NationS' (I have emphasised the plural: try to do it with just one nation, and it doesn't work so well.)

[Markk]

So if we were to put tariffs on auto parts, and the cost is equal with parts that we here can manufacture, then it is a win for us.

If ... indeed. How long do you think it would take for the US to construct all the manufacturing facilities and train the necessary workers to supply all the parts you need which are not currently being sourced from the US?

And, while you are waiting, every auto buyer will have to pay a higher price, since the parts needed to make their auto will cost more, because of the tariffs (it's the US buyer who pays those, not the foreign suppliers). Oh, and even in your 'win' scenario, the US buyer will go on paying more even when (eventually) the parts are made in the US.

Will your average US auto purchaser be happy about that, do you think?

Chap, it is not like we don't still make parts here, we can ramp it up and expand. Plants we shut down can re-open. We may take a hit the short term, but not for long.

I am all for manufacturing jobs. When we were manufacturing and exporting more than importing, an average family could afford a new car and could buy a home,, but not now.....why? A person making 28 dollars an hour max. for a amazon, or Walmart, or Target warehouse, will never be able to buy a home and a car, but auto workers, pipe fitters, electricians, steel workers, machinists.... etc....can.

Do you think it is good to be dependent on other countries, especially countries like China?

But just so I understand you, do you believe that it is better to be a nation of distributers (imports), other than a manufacture (exports) nation? Because in reality that is what tariffs are about in my opinion. Having equal trade partners is healthy.....being reliant on imports is not, it destroys the middle class.

[Markk]

Adam Smith, rather a long time ago, pointed out that it would be perfectly possible for Scotland to produce its own wine rather than buying it from France. Only problem: huge production costs (glasshouses, fuel for same, and so on). Can't recall whether he added that it might not be as good, even then.

So better to buy it in from France.

His book was called 'The Wealth of NationS' (I have emphasised the plural: try to do it with just one nation, and it doesn't work so well.)

And that is good if France imports equal amounts of Scotch....that is a good and equal trade partner. If France refuses to import much from Scotland, then Scotland is just giving their wealth away....which the US has been doing.

[Chap]

We may take a hit the short term, but not for long.

OK. But that remains to be seen ... and would you like to guess how long 'short' may be if things work out as you expect?

Americans who find it more expensive to buy things because now they have to pay Trump's tariffs can reasonably ask that question, can't they? So about how long is your (or rather Trump's) 'short'?

[Gadianton]

So about how long is your (or rather Trump's) 'short'?

I know, I know!

However long Trump says "short" is. If it's 4 years or 10 years, then they will willingly bear the burden, just so they don't ever need to admit they were wrong about something.

[Markk]

We may take a hit the short term, but not for long.

OK. But that remains to be seen ... and would you like to guess how long 'short' may be if things work out as you expect?

Americans who find it more expensive to buy things because now they have to pay Trump's tariffs can reasonably ask that question, can't they? So about how long is your (or rather Trump's) 'short'?

I am not sure, and you don't know either.

So again, in your opinion should we be a nation of distributors/importers, or manufactures/exporters? That is one of the end games of tariff's.

Do you agree that NAFTA and the WTO...has helped our middle class and their economic growth?

[canpakes]

I am all for manufacturing jobs. When we were manufacturing and exporting more than importing, an average family could afford a new car and could buy a home,, but not now.....why? A person making 28 dollars an hour max. for a amazon, or Walmart, or Target warehouse, will never be able to buy a home and a car, but auto workers, pipe fitters, electricians, steel workers, machinists.... etc....can.

.
Maybe those folks making $28/hour at Amazon, Walmart or Target should stay with their present jobs. The same party pushing tariffs is the one that has also worked overtime to gut unions, and the results aren’t surprising:

“As of Mar 19, 2025, the average hourly pay for an Auto Worker in the United States is $23.60 an hour.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $31.73 and as low as $12.02, the majority of Auto Worker wages currently range between $20.91 (25th percentile) to $26.92 (75th percentile) across the United States.”
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/A ... ker-Salary

”As of Mar 19, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Steel Worker in the United States is $23.82 an hour.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $43.51 and as low as $12.98, the majority of Steel Worker wages currently range between $15.38 (25th percentile) to $33.89 (75th percentile) across the United States.”
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/S ... ker-Salary

”As of Mar 19, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Machinist in the United States is $25.63 an hour.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $36.54 and as low as $14.90, the majority of Machinist wages currently range between $20.91 (25th percentile) to $28.61 (75th percentile) across the United States.”
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Machinist-Salary

Pipe fitters and electricians are not necessarily helped by tariffs given how their work is sourced.

[Markk]

I am all for manufacturing jobs. When we were manufacturing and exporting more than importing, an average family could afford a new car and could buy a home,, but not now.....why? A person making 28 dollars an hour max. for a amazon, or Walmart, or Target warehouse, will never be able to buy a home and a car, but auto workers, pipe fitters, electricians, steel workers, machinists.... etc....can.

.
Maybe those folks making $28/hour at Amazon, Walmart or Target should stay with their present jobs. The same party pushing tariffs is the one that has also worked overtime to gut unions, and the results aren’t surprising:

“As of Mar 19, 2025, the average hourly pay for an Auto Worker in the United States is $23.60 an hour.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $31.73 and as low as $12.02, the majority of Auto Worker wages currently range between $20.91 (25th percentile) to $26.92 (75th percentile) across the United States.”
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/A ... ker-Salary

”As of Mar 19, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Steel Worker in the United States is $23.82 an hour.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $43.51 and as low as $12.98, the majority of Steel Worker wages currently range between $15.38 (25th percentile) to $33.89 (75th percentile) across the United States.”
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/S ... ker-Salary

”As of Mar 19, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Machinist in the United States is $25.63 an hour.

While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $36.54 and as low as $14.90, the majority of Machinist wages currently range between $20.91 (25th percentile) to $28.61 (75th percentile) across the United States.”
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Machinist-Salary

Pipe fitters and electricians are not necessarily helped by tariffs given how their work is sourced.

Why did you just pick the lowest possible website. If you went down a few more links you would see much higher wages, like the one that has 80k a year for a pipe fitter.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Ce ... ter/Salary

Read this https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... orker-pay/
In the early 1990s, rank-and-file employees in motor vehicle manufacturing averaged $43 an hour in today's dollars, more than any of their private-sector, nonmanagerial peers in 165 other industries for which we have data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.Sep 22, 2023



If your numbers are correct, then it is even more reason to manufacture, and shows just how bad the middle class is being devastated. And in my opinion a common denominator is free trade brought in by Clinton and Bush.

Do you agree with free trade (nafta and WTO)? Do you believe we should have balanced trade with our trade partners?

https://uaw.org/tariffs-mark-beginning- ... toworkers/
.

[Some Schmo]

Markk, you should shut the “F” up. You sound like a moron. If you keep talking this way, people will know you're a moron. Is that what you want?

You probably don't care. Moron's aren't known to take care of their reputation, so I don't expect you will be the exception.

[canpakes]

If you went down a few more links you would see much higher wages, like the one that has 80k a year for a pipe fitter.

Markk, that’s nice for pipe fitters, but as stated above, I don’t think that pipe fitters benefit from tariffs. Their work is done on-site regardless of where their materials source from.

Read this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... orker-pay/
In the early 1990s, rank-and-file employees in motor vehicle manufacturing averaged $43 an hour in today's dollars, more than any of their private-sector, nonmanagerial peers in 165 other industries for which we have data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.Sep 22, 2023

It’s not the 1990’s any more.

If your numbers are correct, then it is even more reason to manufacture, and shows just how bad the middle class is being devastated. And in my opinion a common denominator is free trade brought in by Clinton and Bush.

Auto workers don’t earn less simply because of the ability to buy imports. Wages have fallen for a variety of reasons, one of which is that union-busting has reduced union membership to a third of what it was 40 years ago. Add to that, the better quality of imports having forced a shift away from domestics.

And many ‘imports’ are already built here (Honda and Toyota’s best sellers, as example).

Considering the quality issues that plagued American manufacturers several decades back, tariffs are a great way to protect bad quality by merely making competing imported car options - whether better quality or not - more expensive.

Ask yourself what other issues hollowed out the middle class. It wasn’t simply the availability of better-quality cars from Japan or flat-screen TVs. Imported goods just don’t pop up like mushrooms inexplicably after a hard rain. Think about who and what is driving that change. Think about companies like Walmart that actively pushed manufacturing offshore due to their purchasing policies and strategy. How does a company that is responsible for about 10% of all Chinese imports reaching these shores still manage to underpay their staff as to have over 14,000 of its employees receiving food stamp benefits, according to a GAO report from a few years back?

Do you agree with free trade (nafta and WTO)? Do you believe we should have balanced trade with our trade partners?

I place more faith in ‘free trade’ than the alternatives. It is not a perfect system but has obvious efficiencies.

‘Fair trade’ has merit when the concept addresses dumping or subsidized manufacturing from foreign sources, but those practices are difficult to counter regardless.

‘Balanced trade’ seems like a relatively meaningless term (or buzzword) used to describe some sort of mythical environment where a perfect dollar balance is somehow maintained between countries producing disparate items such as unicorns, lucky charms, and unobtanium.