The war against individual freedoms

[_Fence Sitter]

How many billions of dollars do we spend a year defending ourselves against external terrorism? A threat that kills how many Americans a year?10? maybe a 100?

And yet how many thousands of Americans die each year right in our own country from guns?

God, we are morons.

The obvious needs to be pointed out sometimes. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. People who are intent on getting a gun find ways despite the many existing gun laws of restrictions. Schools need security.

2 common factors among shooters are prescription mind-altering drug use & fatherlessness. The real problems go ignored while scapegoats of blaming guns is the focus.

13500 people were killed in the US in 2015 by guns. 26,000 were injured
and you believe that drugs and fatherlessness are the problem?

First of all every shooter who has ever lived has a father. Period. Perhaps you meant the lack of a father figure in their lives? Lets be clear here, there are a lot of factors involved in why people kill people with guns. The two you point out are some of those factors, but certainly not all of them. So, to phrase it like you do, let's point out that there are two obvious common factors involved in all these deaths and injuries.

Guns and people.

When talking about death and injury from a weapon, it is idiotic to say people kill people as if the gun isn't involved.

Why can't we approach this problem on both of those fronts? And given my point above seems to have been too complex for either you or Sub-moron, why can't we dedicate more resources to a problem that takes thousands of lives more than domestic terrorism?

[_MeDotOrg]

The obvious needs to be pointed out sometimes. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. People who are intent on getting a gun find ways despite the many existing gun laws of restrictions. Schools need security.

2 common factors among shooters are prescription mind-altering drug use & fatherlessness. The real problems go ignored while scapegoats of blaming guns is the focus.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Good. We have established that. Can we also stipulate that automatic and semi-automatic weapons made for military use with large capacity magazines enable people to kill a lot more people than single shot weapons with lower capacity magazines?

When I was going to grade school, we had 'drop and cover' drills, in case the Soviet Union bombed us. Today we have 'active shooter' drills. This was not the way things were in this country. Back then illegal weapon were zip guns, and Saturday Night Specials.

"Schools need security"? What about our 'well-regulated militia' supposedly necessary for the security of a free state? What the President is proposing is that we arm out teachers to become a well-regulated militia against Americans who can buy semi-automatic and automatic weapons. Why do they have permission to buy these weapons? Because of the lobbying efforts of the NRA. We had a ban against these weapons which Congress allowed to expire. Since the ban on assault weapons was allowed to expire, mass shooting have been on the rise in this country. So the President proposes that schools form, in essence, well-regulated militias to protect American children against the supposedly 'well-regulated militia' sanctioned by the Second Amendment.

And who pays for all of this? The American taxpayer of course. We should subsidize the purchase of semi-automatic weapons and large capacity magazines by arming 700,000 teachers?

And my favorite: " The real problems go ignored while scapegoats of blaming guns is the focus."

Look at other countries in the world, Amore. Countries that have problems with mental illness, the breakdown of the family and religious institutions. They do not have the mass shooting that we have in this country. Is that because their mental health programs are superior? Or is it because firearm ownership is more heavily regulated that the United States?

Why do Americans need automatic and semi-automatic weapons for personal defense? What is the cost/benefit ratio to our society?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Can we also stipulate that automatic and semi-automatic weapons made for military use with large capacity magazines enable people to kill a lot more people than single shot weapons with lower capacity magazines?

I just finished watching a Free Syrian Army sniper video where they were picking off enemy combatants with boomerangs, pocket knives, and karate hands.

- Doc

[_MeDotOrg]

I just finished watching a Free Syrian Army sniper video where they were picking off enemy combatants with boomerangs, pocket knives, and karate hands.

- Doc

So If we banned automatic and semi-automatic weapons, all future mass murderers would simply become proficient with knives, boomerangs or karate?

[_Amore]

The obvious needs to be pointed out sometimes. Guns do not kill people, people kill people.

You're right, people kill people. But people with guns kill more people than people without guns.

To paraphrase the old saying, "If my child jabs someone with a sharp stick, I don't blame the stick. But I still take away the stick."

Taking away the stick will likely cause him to find a more dangerous stick when you’re not looking or to get a bunch of sharp rocks to throw. You need to figure out why he’s misbehaving (ie mental illness, trying to get attention because he has no dad in his life) & correct that, otherwise the misbehavior will repeat only in different ways.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Taking away the stick will likely cause him to find a more dangerous stick when you’re not looking or to get a bunch of sharp rocks to throw. You need to figure out why he’s misbehaving (ie mental illness, trying to get attention because he has no dad in his life) & correct that, otherwise the misbehavior will repeat only in different ways.

How do you get lost in the metaphor so easily? It's embarrassing.

- Doc

[_Amore]

MeDotOrg,
I do agree that something needs to be done regarding automatic weapons, but banning them won’t stop people who are determined to use one. I don’t pretend to be super knowledgeable about gun laws and but I di want my and others’ kids to be safe and I want to discover, explore & solve all contributing problems in the best way possible.

You wrote,
“Look at other countries in the world, Amore. Countries that have problems with mental illness, the breakdown of the family and religious institutions. They do not have the mass shooting that we have in this country. Is that because their mental health programs are superior? Or is it because firearm ownership is more heavily regulated that the United States?”

Which countries are you referring to? And have you looked at statistical comparisons between mental illness treatment and homicide rate? This list of countries’ homicides shows US way down. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _by_decade There are many countries who have more homicides than the US. The US is highest statistically for mental illness in the world (http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/m/mental_ ... ountry.htm). Why? Maybe... 1) US diet, water or other factors of living here are causing mental illness, 2) mental illness is overdiagnosed because of pharmaceutical $$$$.

Multiple factors need to be addressed to prevent shootings.

Stats on fatherlessness... but gotta go

[_EAllusion]

Amore -

Why don't people go on spree killings with grenade launchers?

[_Kevin Graham]

MeDotOrg,
I do agree that something needs to be done regarding automatic weapons, but banning them won’t stop people who are determined to use one.

Why do people think all mass shooters are really that determined?

Maybe they're like suicides? You know, when there are more guns around, a depressed person is more likely to kill himself. This is a statistical fact. So maybe mass shootings are also more of an impulse thing, and not necessarily something planned for weeks.

Maybe this 18 year old kid was having a depressingly bad day. Had he not been able to purchase an AR15 legally, would he have really be so determined to get one illegally?

[_Amore]

MeDotOrg (or whoever’s interested in actually learning to prevent reoccurrence)...
Sorry I didn’t finish my post. Fatherlessness is extremely high statistically, in the US, as is no parents, compared to other countries.
https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010 ... the-world/


(FenceSitter etc, obviously every person has a biological mother & father - fatherlessness implies father is not present in their lives, as is the case of most shooters.)

EAIllusion,
I have a feeling your question is a strawman attempt but I’ll answer anyway. People who want to kill many people want more controlled aim, which grenades don’t give as they are oval/roll haphazardly after being pulled so puller could get hurt, besides granades are expensive to practice with (one time use).
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Are_ ... 21-385870/