Stark Reality of Ineptitude of Trump's Covid-19 Response

[_Gunnar]

Just don't mistake things of the spirit as the sulfurous emissions from Trump. That comes from too much brimstone.

If what Trump advocates and does are examples of "things of the spirit", that is the strongest argument I can possibly imagine against seeking and relying on "things of the spirit."

[_Gunnar]

I actually have had a pretty long, somewhat rocky relationship with Jersey Girl. When we first started interacting, we would have some pretty good arguments. I told her a long time ago that I respected her, and that I would always be completely straight with her. Clearly we disagree on some fundamental things, but I think there have been times when I may have spoken less artfully and she mistook my intent. I also think there are times when she has overreacted to my comments... for a time.

But I always take what she says seriously, and I believe she means well. Yeah, I like Jersey Girl. She's like a lot of people I know - drive me nuts but I can't seem to quit them.

I have a much longer history with Jersey Girl than you have, and she will attest that there have been longstanding disagreements between her and me as well. Nevertheless, we have managed to develop a strong friendship and rapport with each other. We have even each yielded to the other's point of view and resolved our differences of opinion on occasion. I think I can fairly say that both of us have altered each other's opinions and understanding for the better, over all, based on honestly considering opposing arguments of the other. I won't presume to say which of us has had the most wins in our disputes, but I think she would agree that both of us have had both wins and losses. In general, though, the points on which she and I still disagree are the same ones on which she and you disagree, with my views almost invariably coinciding with yours, rather than hers.

I particularly agree with the part of your comments that I bolded and underlined. She is a good, compassionate, and generous person. As I said before, if all Christians were like her, the world would be a much better place, and DJT would never have been elected.

[_moksha]

If Christians allow themselves to turn their eyes and minds to the controversies, lies, and failed promises of the Trump administration without keeping themselves grounded in the Word, they're in deep trouble.

That is a good point. Trump is playing this group of believers for chumps and they are willingly falling for it. Maybe they can work on an excuse for Judgment Day and say everyone else in their congregation was doing it too.

[_Jersey Girl]

I actually have had a pretty long, somewhat rocky relationship with Jersey Girl. When we first started interacting, we would have some pretty good arguments. I told her a long time ago that I respected her, and that I would always be completely straight with her. Clearly we disagree on some fundamental things, but I think there have been times when I may have spoken less artfully and she mistook my intent. I also think there are times when she has overreacted to my comments... for a time.

But I always take what she says seriously, and I believe she means well. Yeah, I like Jersey Girl. She's like a lot of people I know - drive me nuts but I can't seem to quit them.

I have a much longer history with Jersey Girl than you have, and she will attest that there have been longstanding disagreements between her and me as well. Nevertheless, we have managed to develop a strong friendship and rapport with each other. We have even each yielded to the other's point of view and resolved our differences of opinion on occasion. I think I can fairly say that both of us have altered each other's opinions and understanding for the better, over all, based on honestly considering opposing arguments of the other. I won't presume to say which of us has had the most wins in our disputes, but I think she would agree that both of us have had both wins and losses. In general, though, the points on which she and I still disagree are the same ones on which she and you disagree, with my views almost invariably coinciding with yours, rather than hers.

I particularly agree with the part of your comments that I bolded and underlined. She is a good, compassionate, and generous person. As I said before, if all Christians were like her, the world would be a much better place, and DJT would never have been elected.

You guys are talking about me? :surprised: Yes, Gunnar. My long history with you dates back to my first post on a message board! I thought I was about to have my brains bashed out of my head with that first post, too!

I'll never forget when I realized that other people could read my post and were talking about me. "Just another fundie, she'll be gone in a week".

Yeah, well I'm still here.

[_Some Schmo]

Oh wow. I was incredulous about your claim Gunnar, only because I remember talking to Jersey Girl back in the mid-2000's. It's not a contest or anything, but I do find it interesting. Have you always gone by Gunnar? I'm not sure why I thought you were a relative newcomer here...

I just noted you registered 2012, which doesn't exactly make you a newcomer, but certainly not here for the first several years of this board... who were you before that?

[_Gunnar]

Oh wow. I was incredulous about your claim Gunnar, only because I remember talking to Jersey Girl back in the mid-2000's. It's not a contest or anything, but I do find it interesting. Have you always gone by Gunnar? I'm not sure why I thought you were a relative newcomer here...

I just noted you registered 2012, which doesn't exactly make you a newcomer, but certainly not here for the first several years of this board... who were you before that?

This isn't the first discussion board where Jersey Girl and I encountered each other. We first interacted on a previous site dedicated to honest and skeptical intellectual inquiry about science and religion, especially about religious issues, and more particularly Mormon issues. It was frequented and founded by Mormons (and others, including some of the people I most respect and admire) who had serious issues with the more troubling aspects of Mormon doctrine and religious faith in general. You might say it was a predecessor to this forum, and had very much the same flavor and feel. I first encountered it more than a decade before the beginning of the current millennium. I had the same user name there that I use here, which happens to be my actual, in real life, first name. When I think about it, it is hard to believe how long it has been since that first interaction! Jersey Girl can probably tell you the exact date of that first encounter.

by the way, you are right about me being a relative newcomer to this particular forum. You were obviously here years before I was.

[_Some Schmo]

by the way, you are right about me being a relative newcomer to this particular forum. You were obviously here years before I was.

OK, cool. That was confusing. I thought I'd missed a name change or something there.

[_Jersey Girl]

Oh wow. I was incredulous about your claim Gunnar, only because I remember talking to Jersey Girl back in the mid-2000's. It's not a contest or anything, but I do find it interesting. Have you always gone by Gunnar? I'm not sure why I thought you were a relative newcomer here...

I just noted you registered 2012, which doesn't exactly make you a newcomer, but certainly not here for the first several years of this board... who were you before that?

This isn't the first discussion board where Jersey Girl and I encountered each other. We first interacted on a previous site dedicated to honest and skeptical intellectual inquiry about science and religion, especially about religious issues, and more particularly Mormon issues. It was frequented and founded by Mormons (and others, including some of the people I most respect and admire) who had serious issues with the more troubling aspects of Mormon doctrine and religious faith in general. You might say it was a predecessor to this forum, and had very much the same flavor and feel. I first encountered it more than a decade before the beginning of the current millennium. I had the same user name there that I use here, which happens to be my actual, in real life, first name. When I think about it, it is hard to believe how long it has been since that first interaction! Jersey Girl can probably tell you the exact date of that first encounter.

by the way, you are right about me being a relative newcomer to this particular forum. You were obviously here years before I was.

Don't hold me to the exact date but I believe my first post there was Oct 14, 1999--give or take a day. :-) Only Craig and JAK could claim the same longevity with me as you do.

I agree that this board is similar to our old board but I do wish the old board had had rules because that is one of the reasons that it ended in a total blood bath. And I miss the threaded view and what we could do with the thread titles. ;-)

[_Gunnar]

Don't hold me to the exact date but I believe my first post there was Oct 14, 1999--give or take a day. :-) Only Craig and JAK could claim the same longevity with me as you do.

I agree that this board is similar to our old board but I do wish the old board had had rules because that is one of the reasons that it ended in a total blood bath. And I miss the threaded view and what we could do with the thread titles. ;-)

Not quite as long ago as I thought! I guess my memory is slipping a bit. Are you sure it wasn't earlier than that" There were some great people on that board and many great discussions. It's too bad some people flew off the handle and spoiled it. I'm thankful for the moderators on this board keeping things more or less civil.

[_Gunnar]

Don't hold me to the exact date but I believe my first post there was Oct 14, 1999--give or take a day. :-) Only Craig and JAK could claim the same longevity with me as you do.

I agree that this board is similar to our old board but I do wish the old board had had rules because that is one of the reasons that it ended in a total blood bath. And I miss the threaded view and what we could do with the thread titles. ;-)

Not quite as long ago as I thought; are you sure it wasn't earlier than that? There were a lot of good people on that board, and many good discussions. It's too bad a few people flew of the handle and ruined it for everyone. I'm thankful for the moderators on this board for keeping things more or less under control.