Fauci is either a liar or a fraud

[_Themis]

Give us our own country. We'll live according to our beliefs and you can live on the other side of the wall according to yours.

You cannot make a country based on everyone having to think the same way. It certainly will not be a democracy, but I suspect you don't believe in free speech and democracy.

[_honorentheos]

You seem to only see this from a very narrow perspective that happens to be the actual problem here. You don't want to solve problems. You don't want to figure out how to ensure our society works a bit better for everyone including how we respond to health crises or economic problems or social injustices that all contribute to this moment being what it is. You just want everything to go great for Ajax.

It's not everything great for Ajax. There's plenty more like me who you would call deplorable. I call them my fellow Americans. Give us our own country. We'll live according to our beliefs and you can live on the other side of the wall according to yours. But all we're getting right now when we try to work together is political sabotage to win the next election. It's time for a divorce. And there's no reason it can't done without shedding blood.

Ajax, I don't call groups of people deplorables. I think that's poor communication and counter productive.

Your fellow Americans are a diverse group of people. Outside of a small handful of people, I think it includes most of us who participate on this forum. This idea it should be a select club of like-minded folks isn't at all in line with the thinking of the founders. And it's a form of social devolution.

Serious question - how are you worse off for living in a county with a plurality of views? The economic collapse happened on the watch of the president you look up to most of all so it can't be because the virus outbreak hurt you economically. You might not want to hear this but he screwed up royally and if you really thought that was a big deal you'd hold him accountable.

So, since that's off the table what is it? Why are you aggitating for dissolution of the union if your life is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be and it wouldn't get better if the US collapsed into a balkanized mess?


It's like right wing media is a form of emo culture turning adults into depressed angry malcontents who ironically have it pretty good. Turn the crap off and get real. WTF is so wrong that you can't deal with people who don't agree with you? I'm guess most of it is in your head and not real.

[_ajax18]

This idea it should be a select club of like-minded folks isn't at all in line with the thinking of the founders.

I think there should be states rights and local governments. This would allow people a choice of different political policy. This is more in line with what the Founders intended. They didn't want a large all powerful federal government. Maybe you need a ban on guns in urban America. For the most part, rural America has done fine with the 2nd amendment. Perhaps the same rules don't necessarily work best for different groups of people.

WTF is wrong that you can't deal with people who don't agree with you?

It's called irreconcilable differences. That's the dysfunction that has defined left and right. I'm not the only one who can't work with people who disagree with me. It's like you haven't observed the political climate in the last 20 years or something. No it's just Ajax that can't work with the other side. None of us can work with the other side!

I don't think you're an extremist. But there's a growing call from your side to abolish the police. I can't work with people who think like this and I'm sure working with me is a nonstarter for them. I personally think anyone who wants to abolish the police needs to have 911 disabled on their cell phones. And honestly I don't want people who think like this living in my neighborhood promoting this kind of anarchy but it almost takes a revolution to stop them and just keep them off our property. The next step will be getting rid of gated communities, local security guards, our weapons, and ultimately private property altogether.

[_Some Schmo]

Irreconcilable differences... I suppose when one side lives in a manufactured hellscape in order to avoid the real one they've created, it's tough to work things out with them.

When Obama was elected, the GOP made the conscious decision never to work with him. That's not Democrats' fault. That's Republicans. They were the party of 'no.' Then when everyone started pointing out what a f*u*c*k up Trump is, they became the party of 'so?'

It's not the Democrats' fault the GOP decided defending Trump is more important than acknowledging obvious facts. I'm not sure why you want to separate; you're already living in a fantasy world.

[_honorentheos]

This idea it should be a select club of like-minded folks isn't at all in line with the thinking of the founders.

I think there should be states rights and local governments. This would allow people a choice of different political policy. This is more in line with what the Founders intended. They didn't want a large all powerful federal government. Maybe you need a ban on guns in urban America. For the most part, rural America has done fine with the 2nd amendment. Perhaps the same rules don't necessarily work best for different groups of people.

In a certain sense I agree with this. I think guns have a legitimate place in our culture and can be used and owned responsibly. But I also was raised in a family where I learned how to safely handle a firearm from my dad, uncles, and grandfather. I didn't enjoy hunting per se, but I enjoyed going out with them, and I enjoyed marksmanship aspects of shooting. In that sense, I think gun ownership should not be a universal one size fits all issue. We've been over my views before I'm pretty sure.

WTF is wrong that you can't deal with people who don't agree with you?

It's called irreconcilable differences. That's the dysfunction that has defined left and right. I'm not the only one who can't work with people who disagree with me. It's like you haven't observed the political climate in the last 20 years or something. No it's just Ajax that can't work with the other side. None of us can work with the other side!

As a very serious person, I disagree. I think what it takes is genuinely listening and assuming people are sincere. And if one does that one can find ways to compromise that don't undermine one another completely. My calling you out here is you directly called for separation. I can't agree with that and don't think it's a particularly mature response to the issues we face as a nation or world. You have to come to terms with society being diverse and complex, and operate in that environment somehow.

I don't think you're an extremist. But there's a growing call from your side to abolish the police. I can't work with people who think like this and I'm sure working with me is a nonstarter for them. I personally think anyone who wants to abolish the police needs to have 911 disabled on their cell phones. And honestly I don't want people who think like this living in my neighborhood promoting this kind of anarchy but it almost takes a revolution to stop them and just keep them off our property. The next step will be getting rid of gated communities, local security guards, our weapons, and ultimately private property altogether.

I don't know about this. I really don't. I have no idea what people are thinking or actually mean when they call for defunding law enforcement when I've heard it described as a very literal abolishment of the police to a redistribution of funding to reframe what law enforcement does and only fund that directly. It's...well. I'm trying to listen while also not being particular find of some of what I'm hearing from both sides. Again, the curse of being a very serious person I guess.

[_Analytics]

It reminds me of the book,Better Off Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession.

"Hang out in my living room on any national election night and at some point in the evening, usually around 7 p.m. Pacific time, you’re almost certain to hear me scream something like: “Why in the hell does the United States—and by extension the entire free world, capitalist dominion, and all of Christendom—allow its government to be held hostage by a coalition of bought-and-paid-for political swamp scum from the most uneducated, morbidly obese, racist, morally indigent, xenophobic, socially stunted, and generally ass-backwards part of the country?” Catch me after some earnest academic with Cambridge and Ivy credentials has to appear on NPR to defend evolution against the latest onslaught on public education from Book of idiots creationists, and you’ll likely bear witness to a Thompson rage-gasm along the lines of: “What in Christ’s name happened to that confederation of Mason-Dixon mouth breathers that got them so intimidated by science and facts and book larnin’ that they can’t even walk past a library or look through a microscope without quoting Habakkuk and Deuteronomy to each other until the threat of intellectual enlightenment goes away?”"

The book is a hilarious rant, but also makes a serious argument that Ajax is right about this one: we'd all be better of if we let the Confederates leave the United States.

[_honorentheos]

Personal view: history.says the path taken to embrace division becomes the first of many steps towards a less free, less innovative, less democratic society. One doesn't just draw a line and say, Everyone who is "X" go to that side, all the "Y"s on this side. Now, live happy!

Pakistan and India didn't thrive after the partition. They both still stand as one of the hot points on the globe where nuclear war is most likely to start. Both are essentially fraught attempts to.claim democratic rule where a theocracy on one side and an ethnic nationalist state on the other take pot shots at each other on the reg in Kashmir.

That's one example of many. Add to it what happens to the global dynamics when the US is no longer the global champion of liberal western democracy and the post WW2 order? Its not a pretty world picture being painted here. And all because people stopped being able to find ways to get along with others with whom they don't agree.

[_ajax18]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/70-co ... spartanntp

Trying to get along with the other side isn't pretty either. Do you realize many of the slaves had better lives here in America than they did in their native Africa. It's not all about prosperity. People don't like being cheated.

[_ajax18]

You have good farm Ragnar. Many men would like to have your land. You should be happy with your lot.

I think of the billions we spend in court yapping and never coming to any resolution most of the time. Perhaps our ancestors had a better way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJSmpg946Xs

[_Chap]

Do you realize many of the slaves had better lives here in America than they did in their native Africa.

Uh-huh ... so I suppose that the first generation of slaves basically said to their owners from time to time 'We're really grateful to you for saving us from that African hell-hole and bringing us to civilisation. What would you like us to do next?' It was just their kids who forgot how awful it had been back there, and began to act ungrateful?

Just out of interest, what evidence do you have that slaves who arrived in America were pleased to be there? Or maybe the first generation were simply too stupid to realise how much better off they were, so the slaves were ungrateful right from the start? They were brought to America against their will - but for their own good?

It's not all about prosperity. People don't like being cheated.

This does not seem to have anything to do with the slaves bit.