Independence

[Some Schmo]

The intentionally suggested "intense dislike of immigration" is a gigantic pile of pure rot.

Then why have Republicans spent the past two weeks demonizing the legal immigrants in Springfield, Ohio?

Because, according to JD Vance, if they have to create stories to get the media to pay attention to their racism (er, I mean, draw attention to an issue that doesn't exist?) then that's what he's going to do.

[Doctor Steuss]

Likewise, an examination of the MAGA mindset

Searching news articles and polls for about 90 seconds, I found a few things that might speak to this mindset conversation.

In a shocking display of how vitriolic U.S. politics has become, more than a quarter of Democrats believe America would be better off if GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump had been killed during one of the two assassination attempts on his life, a new survey revealed Wednesday.

Just this week, Scott Rasmussen of RMG Research Inc. reported that a survey he conducted of 1,000 registered voters indicated that 28% of Democrats presently say America would be better off if former President Donald Trump were assassinated. And if that’s not shocking enough, another 24% answered the same survey question by saying they “weren’t sure!”

Yes, you read that right: 52% of Democrats (a MAJORITY!) just told you they can’t bring themselves to say that killing an opposing party’s presidential candidate is morally wrong.

Killing someone is wrong. I oppose the death penalty, even for capital crimes.

That said, I also believe that not only America, but the world would be better if there was one less adjudicated rapist with a documented history of walking in on children getting dressed walking around. I don't think rapists and child predators are a net positive to society.

I think that believing killing someone is wrong, and believing the world would be better without them are positions that can be held simultaneously. I personally hold both positions, and feel no cognitive dissidence or other mental conflict in doing so.

[Some Schmo]

Searching news articles and polls for about 90 seconds, I found a few things that might speak to this mindset conversation.

In a shocking display of how vitriolic U.S. politics has become, more than a quarter of Democrats believe America would be better off if GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump had been killed during one of the two assassination attempts on his life, a new survey revealed Wednesday.

Just this week, Scott Rasmussen of RMG Research Inc. reported that a survey he conducted of 1,000 registered voters indicated that 28% of Democrats presently say America would be better off if former President Donald Trump were assassinated. And if that’s not shocking enough, another 24% answered the same survey question by saying they “weren’t sure!”

Yes, you read that right: 52% of Democrats (a MAJORITY!) just told you they can’t bring themselves to say that killing an opposing party’s presidential candidate is morally wrong.

Killing someone is wrong. I oppose the death penalty, even for capital crimes.

That said, I also believe that not only America, but the world would be better if there was one less adjudicated rapist with a documented history of walking in on children getting dressed walking around. I don't think rapists and child predators are a net positive to society.

I think that believing killing someone is wrong, and believing the world would be better without them are positions that can be held simultaneously. I personally hold both positions, and feel no cognitive dissidence or other mental conflict in doing so.

I'm trying to understand the calculation that America is better off with Trump alive. I'm a little surprised the numbers are that low.

And let's not forget that a majority of Republicans seem to be OK with repetitively inciting violence in service of their party. Trump incites violence while accusing Democrats of inciting violence, for “F”'s sake (the GOP version of inciting violence is Democrats telling the truth, apparently).

Of course this country would be better off with Trump out of the public eye. That's a no-brainer. He's a damned thug with massive influence over other idiots like him.

However, I'm not a Democrat, so I wouldn't have been included in that poll.

[Doctor Steuss]

And let's not forget that a majority of Republicans seem to be OK with repetitively inciting violence in service of their party. Trump incites violence while accusing Democrats of inciting violence, for “F”'s sake (the GOP version of inciting violence is Democrats telling the truth, apparently).

Going from memory, but around 38% of Republicans (from a poll a few months ago) said that they believe political violence will be necessary in order to put the country "back on track." Democrats it's 18%.

There's definitely one side that disproportionately has people calling for a civil war (and usually crowing that they're the "ones with guns"). We have one such individual who is a regular poster on this forum.

Incidentally, it was only a few weeks ago that a Republican sheriff in Ohio posted on Facebook for people to "write down the addresses of the people who had [Harris] signs in their yard," and called immigrants "human locusts." The constant racism, rage baiting, and offensive rhetoric is so prevalent that this didn't even cause a ripple in the media cycle.

However, I'm not a Democrat, so I wouldn't have been included in that poll.

Life-long registered Republican here.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Trump:

“They were very brave, the Supreme Court. Very brave. And they take a lot of hits because of it,” said the former president. “It should be illegal, what happens. You know, you have these guys like playing the ref, like the great Bobby Knight. These people should be put in jail the way they talk about our judges and our justices, trying to … sway their vote, sway their decision”

I don’t know why it’s TDS to point to a clear and present danger and talk about it. But, here we are.

- Doc

[Some Schmo]

TDS is part of the BS story Trump voters tell themselves to justify their incredibly horrible judgment of character. It is projection of the highest order, because they are clearly deranged about Trump.

[Bond]

TDS is part of the BS story Trump voters tell themselves to justify their incredibly horrible judgment of character. It is projection of the highest order, because they are clearly deranged about Trump.

There's a courtroom scene in the movie Denial (2016) (I highly recommend the book which is phenomenal) where a Holocaust denier is testifying about his character in a trial he's bringing for defamation against historian Deborah Lipstadt. The lawyer brings out evidence of his racism and then asks the witness if he's a racist. The scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPD_LoQHBu0

Ultimately Robert Irving, the witness, denies being a racist and antisemitic. The lawyer then simply asks Irving to refer to the transcript and "look at the words on the page."

I think of that phrase often when I think about politics and life. Clearly no one is perfect but look at the transcript of a person's life. "Grab'em by the pussy" and Bill Cosby levels of sexual assault allegations should really make everyone take pause.

**edited to fix link a few hours after posting**

[Gadianton]

I'm trying to understand the calculation that America is better off with Trump alive. I'm a little surprised the numbers are that low.

It's an absurd question formulated with bad intentions to manufacture outrage.

The question is totally open ended, and thus the righteous indignation of Ceeboo is ignited.

It's like asking, only worse, would the country be better off if Donald Trump stole the election?

You can say "yes" without believing it's morally right for him to steal the election, or without believing Trump should actually steal the election, or without believing that one should personally participate in election fraud. The meaning of the question can be debated on other levels. One person might interpret it as an extreme way to affirm Trump as president in the abstract, holding other factors constant. This is how Schmo appears to take the question of the poll. Others might take it as intentionally asking about the tradeoffs of the crime in a geopolitical sense: would it be worth the fallout? Clearly, dying of natural causes will have a different effect than an assassination in terms of the response of the people.

Would it have been better if someone had assassinated Hitler? If we could go back in time, would it be better to prevent his birth, so we don't have to kill him? How much would you personally participate in any plan to eliminate Hitler both before or after the fact?

Good questions for students of rhetoric or ethics to study as questions, horrible questions to actually ask people and think that we've learned anything by the answers.

[ceeboo]

I'm trying to understand the calculation that America is better off with Trump alive. I'm a little surprised the numbers are that low.

It's an absurd question formulated with bad intentions to manufacture outrage.

So the polling organization "formulated the questions with bad intentions to manufacture outrage?" LOL

The question is totally open ended, and thus the righteous indignation of Ceeboo is ignited.

LOL - This is about Ceeboo's righteous indignation being ignited" - Right! Look at Ceeboo - Don't look at the elephant in the room (what the poll results illustrate)

Would it have been better if someone had assassinated Hitler?

I understand why you have selected Hitler (talk about formulating a question with bad intentions to manufacture outrage - Good God!) - But to most rational people, to be relative/comparable, you should have asked something like this: Would it be better if someone would assassinate Harris?

[ceeboo]

TDS is part of the BS story Trump voters tell themselves to justify their incredibly horrible judgment of character.

TDS is as real as real gets. People who are suffering with TDS can't see that they have it (That's one of the side effects of TDS). I have spoken to people who are never-Trumpers, and who will be voting for Harris, that absolutely understand and recognize how real TDS is.