Did someone say horses?

[_KimberlyAnn]

I just wrote a detailed reply. I put a lot of thought into it, but it got lost.

Gaz, I got married when I was eighteen. My dad is kind of crazy and kind of mean. One of the reasons I got married so young was to get away from him. Dad didn't approve of my marrying so young and told me it was a mistake, but I felt I needed to do it, so I did.

On my wedding day, minutes before I got married, Dad approached me. He leaned toward me and I thought maybe he was going to kiss me on the cheek. He whispered in my ear, "Don't ever come home." (He meant, specifically, not to move back home or ask for monetary help.)

I married and moved far, far away from my family. I found out soon enough that I'd jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. There were lots of times I wished I could go home. But Dad meant what he said. He still means it. If he ever imagines I might need help or want to move myself and my girls into his house (I'd never do that!), he tells me, "Remember what I told you."

Maybe it's because of that experience, but I truly cannot think of a reason to send a child away from his or her parents, other than to protect siblings from physical danger. I can't imagine an instance when a child should be cut off from his or her family home, even if she or he made mistakes or brought the trouble on her or himself.

When kids are struggling, when they're at their lowest and worst, don't they need their families the most? If they're into drugs or drinking or promiscuous sex, aren't they more needful of their mother and father's care and protection than ever before?

Perhaps the whole family should rally around the struggling brother or sister and work together to help him or her while also loving and supporting each other? To me that seems so much more productive than viewing a member of the family as someone to be shunned.

Being gay is not an act of abuse, Gaz. But your hatred of gays is very ugly. I wish you could find a way to soften your heart. You already know what I think.

My lost reply was so much better. Drats. I just don't have the energy to rewrite it. There have been seven seventh grade girls at my house tonight. The place smells like a nail salon. I'm just exhausted!

KA

[_Paul Osborne]

Cupcake,

I read your post.

I'm sooo sorry your father treated you that way. It must have hurt a lot. Hang in there. Try and be forgiving. He is applying religious principles in a wrong way. Someday he will realize that and weep. But I don't need to tell you that.

Thanks for sharing.

Paul O

[_Jersey Girl]

To the folks on this thread who have called or implied that Gaz and/or his views are excrement, monstrous or abusive.

I recently met Gaz. He is not a monster, abusive, nor is he "excrement". He is more caring than any of you realize, even about some of you on this board. He is fun, honest, and sincerely striving to live out his faith. He adores his wife and children.

Is there another way to approach someone whose views you disagree with than to level insults and/or essentially call another human being a piece of crap?

And when you call him a piece of crap, Pok, who then is the abuser?

[_Paul Osborne]

To the folks on this thread who have called or implied that Gaz and/or his views are excrement, monstrous or abusive.

I agree. Potato man was out of line for saying that. If only we could just love each other knowing we are all related under the heaven it would help us to be less offensive. I admit that I don't agree with many of the things Gaz says but I'm wise enough to know he is trying to work his way through his earthly mission just as we all are.

Let's be a bit kinder, folks.

Gaz, I hope you don't think I dislike you. I could just as well sit down and eat a meal with you and have a good time. You are my brother.

Paul O

[_Jersey Girl]

I stand by my statement that Gaz is excrement.

Gaz's views on homosexuality are motivated by a strong desire to protect his children. I'd like to know what motivated you to call him a piece of crap.

Are your words any more forgiving of him than you think his are regarding gays?

[_Jersey Girl]

I agree. Potato man was out of line for saying that. If only we could just love each other knowing we are all related under the heaven it would help us to be less offensive. I admit that I don't agree with many of the things Gaz says but I'm wise enough to know he is trying to work his way through his earthly mission just as we all are.

Let's be a bit kinder, folks.

Gaz, I hope you don't think I dislike you. I could just as well sit down and eat a meal with you and have a good time. You are my brother.

Paul O

Everyone on this thread is trying to work their way through their life (earthly mission, as you put it) and I'd like to know what parent on this thread thinks they have or had the correct answer/response/solution to every parenting issue they've been face with or will ever be faced with.

Has no parent on this thread never experienced confusion? Not known what to do? Believed they knew what solution was right up until they were faced with the real life issue that they had only previously imagined?

God, people. Get down off your high and judgemental horses.

And you would have a good time in his presence. I certainly did!

[_Jersey Girl]

This behavior/attitude is one of the things I find so disturbingly sick about Mormonism and other religious organizations. I have seen it with unwed girls when they need the most love ever in their life they get the Gaz treatment. It is bastards like Gaz that keep the Gulag's full.

Gaz you are a piece of excrement and you would be the first to argue that you are being Christlike.

That's odd. I find calling another person a piece of crap to be disturbingly sick. Go figure.

[_dblagent007]

Why would I allow one of my children, if they were to turn to homosexuality, to influence my other children with their bawdy lifestyle and profane stories?

They would have to remove themselves from my home. Period.

Gaz, I hope that you never face this situation, for the sake of the child.

Let me tell you a story about this very issue as it played out in my family. I had an uncle that was a homosexual. He grew up in a small town in central Utah. He contracted AIDS in the early eighties.

A few of the people in the town where he grew up found out that he had AIDS and ran him out in the early 90s. These people persecuted him and made him fear for his life. They literally chased his vehicle around town, prevented him from entering town, made threats against his life, etc. The people were afraid that his disease would spread.

He didn't have very many options of where to live. However, another relative took him into his small four bedroom home (2200 sq ft) in the Las Vegas area. At the time (early to mid 90s), this relative had a wife and four small children living at home.

As soon as the relative took him in, my other relatives in the area told him that he and his family were no longer welcome at the family get together they had every Sunday night. In fact, most contact with the other relatives ceased. One of the other relatives was a well respected physician that should have known better, but in fact was one of the most outspoken against my uncle.

My uncle lived with this relative until he finally died of AIDS a year or two later. No one in my relative's family contracted AIDS. None of them are homosexuals either.

All of my relatives were and are faithful active Mormons. I ask you, however, which of these treated my uncle like Jesus would have? Or, in the words of Jesus himself "which now of these [], thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him?"

[_TAK]

Tak,

Would you treat your divorced kids the same way as the gay ones??

How is divorce in any way comparable to homosexuality?

They are both sins according to your scriptures ..

[_beastie]

Gaz –

If one of your children had heterosexual sex, would you throw him/her out of the home, as well?

If one of your children apostatized from the church, would you throw him/her out of the home, as well?

If one of your children began smoking and drinking, would you throw him/her out of the home, as well?

If one of your children refused to pay tithing, would you throw him/her out of the home, as well?

According to LDS theology, each one of these behaviors could “threaten” your other children in that if they mimicked the behavior of the straying child, it could keep them out of the Celestial Kingdom. In fact, chances are higher that the siblings would be tempted to try out the behaviors I listed above versus homosexual behavior, unless the sibling already has same-sex attraction. You can’t “catch” the ability to be sexually attracted to the same sex. And the behaviors listed above are far more common problems within the LDS community than homosexuality.

If you hesitate over whether or not you would throw your children out of the home for the above behavior, then you should spend some time figuring out your real motivation for throwing a homosexual child out of the home.

By LDS theology, homosexuality is no worse than any other of the sins that keeps one out of the temple. At least, that is what LDS leaders claim, when they point out that heterosexual acts outside of marriage render one unworthy, as well. Of course, in practice, many LDS act like it is worse for some reason. But I fail to see theological justification for this when all of these acts will equally render someone unfit for the CK.

Sadly, though, I do see LDS theological justification for throwing one’s children out of the home. Heavenly Father set the standard for this. He has declared, according to LDS theology, of course, that He will also throw His children out of His home and refuse to ever see them again if they engage in certain behavior.

by the way, Gaz, don’t fool yourself about some bohemian flop-house. Homeless children and young adults live on the streets and often end up being forced into prostitution to survive.