In his instructions, Judge Perry explains that if the jury doesn't feel that this case meets the conditions of First Degree Murder, but does meet the conditions for a lesser charge, that the jury can go with the lesser charge.
That said, here are my conclusions as Jury Member #13 :-)
SECOND DEGREE MURDER
4 COUNTS OF LYING TO A POLICE OFFICER
Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_beastie
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
Jersey Girl -
I listened to much of the closing arguments, but not all, and did not hear the instructions to the jury although I read about it.
With second degree murder, how do you explain the duct tape being wrapped around the skull?
Also, in thinking about when the car started to smell, I read that Casey told her friends that her car smelled like something died in it and claimed her dad ran over a squirrel, but during a time frame when her parents did not know where Casey or the car was. (edit on: she told Amy this on June 25)
http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008 ... -squirrel/
She texted her friend Amy on June 27 claiming a dead animal was plastered to the frame of her car.
If Casey gave this explanation to her parents and police, it could explain why they didn't automatically suspect Caylee was dead and had been in the car. This was during the time period Casey was insisting Caylee was alive.
I'm wondering if it's possible that at first the smell was not overwhelming, and the smell from the gas cans masked it. Then, as the temperature got hotter and the body liquids left in the trunk heated up, the smell got worse and worse, to the point where Casey began claiming it was the dead animal.
I listened to much of the closing arguments, but not all, and did not hear the instructions to the jury although I read about it.
With second degree murder, how do you explain the duct tape being wrapped around the skull?
Also, in thinking about when the car started to smell, I read that Casey told her friends that her car smelled like something died in it and claimed her dad ran over a squirrel, but during a time frame when her parents did not know where Casey or the car was. (edit on: she told Amy this on June 25)
http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008 ... -squirrel/
She texted her friend Amy on June 27 claiming a dead animal was plastered to the frame of her car.
If Casey gave this explanation to her parents and police, it could explain why they didn't automatically suspect Caylee was dead and had been in the car. This was during the time period Casey was insisting Caylee was alive.
I'm wondering if it's possible that at first the smell was not overwhelming, and the smell from the gas cans masked it. Then, as the temperature got hotter and the body liquids left in the trunk heated up, the smell got worse and worse, to the point where Casey began claiming it was the dead animal.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Penn & Teller
http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
Penn & Teller
http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
Hi beastie,
I don't really know how to account for the fact that neither George nor Tony reported a smell (or body) in the trunk of the car on Jn 23/24. I think it's possible that the body was in the trunk up until near that time, the decomposition process speeded up due to hot conditions in a Florida June, and as you said, fluids began to leak. If the body had been there say, from Jun 16-22, that would have been 4 days from the time of Caylee's death in the hot trunk of the car and with the decomp process speeded up due to heat, the body could easily have started to bloat and leak fluids.
If she then dumped the body in the woods and the trunk were empty by Jun 23/24, maybe it is the leaked fluids on the carpet that caused the smell to become so strong over a long period of time?
Or...maybe Tony was just flat out involved and they hid the body elsewhere for a while? I have no real idea. I do know that if you listen to Casey's first call to family after her arrest (they played this in court yesterday) all she wanted was Tony's phone number and she wanted it NOW. There is no discussion of getting an attorney, there is no asking parents for help, all she wants is Tony's phone number.
You are right about the duct tape and second degree murder though, I will have to read my intructions again so I can be a more effective juror. ;-)
Today is the first day for the last 6 weeks that I will not be viewing 10-12 video installments of the trial. What on earth am I supposed to do with my time now?
:-D
I don't really know how to account for the fact that neither George nor Tony reported a smell (or body) in the trunk of the car on Jn 23/24. I think it's possible that the body was in the trunk up until near that time, the decomposition process speeded up due to hot conditions in a Florida June, and as you said, fluids began to leak. If the body had been there say, from Jun 16-22, that would have been 4 days from the time of Caylee's death in the hot trunk of the car and with the decomp process speeded up due to heat, the body could easily have started to bloat and leak fluids.
If she then dumped the body in the woods and the trunk were empty by Jun 23/24, maybe it is the leaked fluids on the carpet that caused the smell to become so strong over a long period of time?
Or...maybe Tony was just flat out involved and they hid the body elsewhere for a while? I have no real idea. I do know that if you listen to Casey's first call to family after her arrest (they played this in court yesterday) all she wanted was Tony's phone number and she wanted it NOW. There is no discussion of getting an attorney, there is no asking parents for help, all she wants is Tony's phone number.
You are right about the duct tape and second degree murder though, I will have to read my intructions again so I can be a more effective juror. ;-)
Today is the first day for the last 6 weeks that I will not be viewing 10-12 video installments of the trial. What on earth am I supposed to do with my time now?
:-D
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb
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_beastie
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
Hey, Jersey Girl -
Verdict watch, eh? I actually signed up for Vinnie Politan's Twitter feed so I'll get an alert when the verdict comes in. And I've always hated the idea of Twitter.
I think we have to remember we don't know the actual date of death. Casey did claim she'd been missing for 32 days, and I think that is what the prosecution used to set the date of death. But who knows the real truth? It's horrible to say, but she could have been chloroforming or doping the child up for several days before killing her.
I do know from the experience of having a small animal apparently climb up in my car's engine or something and being killed when I started the car, that the smell isn't too bad at first. It's days later when it gets potent. Think about how potent the smell of gas, itself, is, and how she'd been toting gas cans in the trunk. I think it's feasible to postulate that perhaps the real date of death is later than we think, but not by much. It depends on how accurate the neighbor's memory is who saw her back the car into the garage. I think he put the date at June 16 but then said she asked to borrow a shovel June 18. At the latest, we can assume Caylee was dead by June 18.
By June 24 Casey was claiming a dead animal caused the smell in her car. So that gives ups 6-8 days before the smell was so noticeable that Casey herself had to make something up to explain it.
How about this: she didn't leave the body in the car for days, but instead just used the car to transport her body? If the neighbor misremembered the backing the car in the garage and it happened on the same day she borrowed the shovel, which makes more sense to me, at least, then perhaps she immediately transported the body to the swamp. That could explain the lack of the early stage coffin flies, if the body wasn't in the trunk long enough. It could explain the time lapse required for the smell to become potent if it was mainly originating from spilled fluids.
I really don't believe any evidence points to the involvement of anyone other than Casey in this murder. I think Casey was obsessed with Tony, and that's why she wanted his phone number first. I suspect that, even though Tony was nice to Caylee, perhaps his telling Casey that his ap't was a bachelor pad and not appropriate for a child, combined with his teasing her that he wasn't going to come back from his trip, could have triggered a "Diane Downs" reaction.
She was desperate to move out of her parent's house. She obviously wanted to live with Tony. She probably wouldn't want to vindicate her mother by giving her mother custody of Caylee, and wouldn't want to look like a bad mom by doing so, either. Killing Caylee not only eliminated the problem of her being an impediment for moving into Tony's place, but it also was the perfect revenge on Cindy.
The only thing I can't figure out is how long she thought she could keep the game up. How long would people accept her excuses for Caylee's absence? I think she sounds like a person with poor impulse control who then spends a lot of time trying to figure out how to get out of the problems her lack of control caused. And, of course, she is a sociopath.
Verdict watch, eh? I actually signed up for Vinnie Politan's Twitter feed so I'll get an alert when the verdict comes in. And I've always hated the idea of Twitter.
I think we have to remember we don't know the actual date of death. Casey did claim she'd been missing for 32 days, and I think that is what the prosecution used to set the date of death. But who knows the real truth? It's horrible to say, but she could have been chloroforming or doping the child up for several days before killing her.
I do know from the experience of having a small animal apparently climb up in my car's engine or something and being killed when I started the car, that the smell isn't too bad at first. It's days later when it gets potent. Think about how potent the smell of gas, itself, is, and how she'd been toting gas cans in the trunk. I think it's feasible to postulate that perhaps the real date of death is later than we think, but not by much. It depends on how accurate the neighbor's memory is who saw her back the car into the garage. I think he put the date at June 16 but then said she asked to borrow a shovel June 18. At the latest, we can assume Caylee was dead by June 18.
By June 24 Casey was claiming a dead animal caused the smell in her car. So that gives ups 6-8 days before the smell was so noticeable that Casey herself had to make something up to explain it.
How about this: she didn't leave the body in the car for days, but instead just used the car to transport her body? If the neighbor misremembered the backing the car in the garage and it happened on the same day she borrowed the shovel, which makes more sense to me, at least, then perhaps she immediately transported the body to the swamp. That could explain the lack of the early stage coffin flies, if the body wasn't in the trunk long enough. It could explain the time lapse required for the smell to become potent if it was mainly originating from spilled fluids.
I really don't believe any evidence points to the involvement of anyone other than Casey in this murder. I think Casey was obsessed with Tony, and that's why she wanted his phone number first. I suspect that, even though Tony was nice to Caylee, perhaps his telling Casey that his ap't was a bachelor pad and not appropriate for a child, combined with his teasing her that he wasn't going to come back from his trip, could have triggered a "Diane Downs" reaction.
She was desperate to move out of her parent's house. She obviously wanted to live with Tony. She probably wouldn't want to vindicate her mother by giving her mother custody of Caylee, and wouldn't want to look like a bad mom by doing so, either. Killing Caylee not only eliminated the problem of her being an impediment for moving into Tony's place, but it also was the perfect revenge on Cindy.
The only thing I can't figure out is how long she thought she could keep the game up. How long would people accept her excuses for Caylee's absence? I think she sounds like a person with poor impulse control who then spends a lot of time trying to figure out how to get out of the problems her lack of control caused. And, of course, she is a sociopath.
Jersey Girl wrote:Hi beastie,
I don't really know how to account for the fact that neither George nor Tony reported a smell (or body) in the trunk of the car on Jn 23/24. I think it's possible that the body was in the trunk up until near that time, the decomposition process speeded up due to hot conditions in a Florida June, and as you said, fluids began to leak. If the body had been there say, from Jun 16-22, that would have been 4 days from the time of Caylee's death in the hot trunk of the car and with the decomp process speeded up due to heat, the body could easily have started to bloat and leak fluids.
If she then dumped the body in the woods and the trunk were empty by Jun 23/24, maybe it is the leaked fluids on the carpet that caused the smell to become so strong over a long period of time?
Or...maybe Tony was just flat out involved and they hid the body elsewhere for a while? I have no real idea. I do know that if you listen to Casey's first call to family after her arrest (they played this in court yesterday) all she wanted was Tony's phone number and she wanted it NOW. There is no discussion of getting an attorney, there is no asking parents for help, all she wants is Tony's phone number.
You are right about the duct tape and second degree murder though, I will have to read my intructions again so I can be a more effective juror. ;-)
Today is the first day for the last 6 weeks that I will not be viewing 10-12 video installments of the trial. What on earth am I supposed to do with my time now?
:-D
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Penn & Teller
http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
Penn & Teller
http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
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_beastie
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
Any trial watchers better get to the TV. Verdict announced in 45 min.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Penn & Teller
http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
Penn & Teller
http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
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_Ceeboo
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
beastie wrote:Any trial watchers better get to the TV. Verdict announced in 45 min.
WOW!!!!
THAT was fast!
HMMMMMMMM???????????
ETA: This very quick verdict strikes me as being REALLY bad for the defense!
Peace,
Ceeboo
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
beastie,
Of all the topics that I could have ever imagined that you and I would discuss here on MDB, the leaking decomp fluids and early colonizers wouldn't have ever made the list!
George stated that on the 16th, that Casey left with Caylee at 12:50 and he pinpoints this time because was watching his favorite cooking show on television. No doubt this was part of his daily routine before leaving for work.
Where did Casey go? I think that Yuri Melich (Dick Tracy Orlando :-) reported the cell phone pings put her around Tony's and also Hopespring Dr. during that day and the days following. What about the flurry of phone calls she tried to make to Cindy on the 16th around 4 pm????
Could Caylee have died just prior and she was actually trying to get help? Did she go back to the house and Caylee landed in the pool and drowned? WHERE were those flurry of phone calls made from? Why didn't the prosecution zoom in on this evidence? They have the phone records and didn't touch on the location at all so far as I can recall.
I need time to think about the coffin flies more. The trunk presents a plausible "container" to prevent the entry of the flies. That and the likely fact that the body was wrapped in two trash bags and stuffed into the laundry bag.
The shovel thing is of great interest to me. The neighbor reported that Casey needed a shovel to dig up a bamboo root to which I say, "My ass!" She needed a shovel to try to bury Caylee some place. This girl is no do-gooder trying to solve a problem in her parent's yard.
Today there was a lip reader (I mentioned lip readers earlier in this thread) who gave an account of what Casey "mouthed" when Linda Drane Burdick was speaking and saying essentially, blame Mom for leaving the pool ladder up "I didn't say anything like that, it wouldn't have been my Mom" (or mother) and then when Drane Burdick says she tried to blame George she said, "It wasn't his fault."
Wouldn't it be nice if just once, Casey Anthony would connect all the dots? I expected this to happen during the Defense presentation but I guess I was naïve about the nature of trial proceedings. All we got were little flashes of information instead of the whole picture of what took place.
Yes, I am now on verdict watch! This case is so intensely interesting to me, having followed it from the point of Caylee's disappearance. If it hadn't involved a child I wouldn't have given this the time of day. A word about Nancy Grace is due here. Yes, the woman is obviously annoying and sensational, but it was Nancy Grace that devoted daily broadcasts to Caylee Anthony and without her yelling through the TV every night the summer of 2008, I would have never paid this much attention to it. If nothing else, Nancy Grace deserves some credit for drawing attention to the story of Caylee Anthony and I didn't know who NG was until I happened on her broadcast one night by accident.
Thanks for discussing this with me. You are either totally indifferent to this case or totally sucked in by it.
I guess you know where I am!
:-)
Of all the topics that I could have ever imagined that you and I would discuss here on MDB, the leaking decomp fluids and early colonizers wouldn't have ever made the list!
George stated that on the 16th, that Casey left with Caylee at 12:50 and he pinpoints this time because was watching his favorite cooking show on television. No doubt this was part of his daily routine before leaving for work.
Where did Casey go? I think that Yuri Melich (Dick Tracy Orlando :-) reported the cell phone pings put her around Tony's and also Hopespring Dr. during that day and the days following. What about the flurry of phone calls she tried to make to Cindy on the 16th around 4 pm????
Could Caylee have died just prior and she was actually trying to get help? Did she go back to the house and Caylee landed in the pool and drowned? WHERE were those flurry of phone calls made from? Why didn't the prosecution zoom in on this evidence? They have the phone records and didn't touch on the location at all so far as I can recall.
I need time to think about the coffin flies more. The trunk presents a plausible "container" to prevent the entry of the flies. That and the likely fact that the body was wrapped in two trash bags and stuffed into the laundry bag.
The shovel thing is of great interest to me. The neighbor reported that Casey needed a shovel to dig up a bamboo root to which I say, "My ass!" She needed a shovel to try to bury Caylee some place. This girl is no do-gooder trying to solve a problem in her parent's yard.
Today there was a lip reader (I mentioned lip readers earlier in this thread) who gave an account of what Casey "mouthed" when Linda Drane Burdick was speaking and saying essentially, blame Mom for leaving the pool ladder up "I didn't say anything like that, it wouldn't have been my Mom" (or mother) and then when Drane Burdick says she tried to blame George she said, "It wasn't his fault."
Wouldn't it be nice if just once, Casey Anthony would connect all the dots? I expected this to happen during the Defense presentation but I guess I was naïve about the nature of trial proceedings. All we got were little flashes of information instead of the whole picture of what took place.
Yes, I am now on verdict watch! This case is so intensely interesting to me, having followed it from the point of Caylee's disappearance. If it hadn't involved a child I wouldn't have given this the time of day. A word about Nancy Grace is due here. Yes, the woman is obviously annoying and sensational, but it was Nancy Grace that devoted daily broadcasts to Caylee Anthony and without her yelling through the TV every night the summer of 2008, I would have never paid this much attention to it. If nothing else, Nancy Grace deserves some credit for drawing attention to the story of Caylee Anthony and I didn't know who NG was until I happened on her broadcast one night by accident.
Thanks for discussing this with me. You are either totally indifferent to this case or totally sucked in by it.
I guess you know where I am!
:-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
beastie wrote:Any trial watchers better get to the TV. Verdict announced in 45 min.
Oh heck!
I was planning to go to the pool today but now I'm gonna be glued to the computer.
Okay folks...here is my last call on the verdict.
Felony Murder
4 Counts of lying to police officers
Take it or leave it folks, for as we say in Jersey, it's "no crap time"!
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
beastie,
What is your decision on the verdict?
What is your decision on the verdict?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON
And yes, Ceeboo, an early verdict doesn't likely bode well for the Defense.
People don't realize that this is history in the making. Some of the forensics used as admissible evidence and testimony in this case have never been used in a US court before.
People don't realize that this is history in the making. Some of the forensics used as admissible evidence and testimony in this case have never been used in a US court before.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb