Another challenge to climate change deniers

[_Chap]

... What it all comes down to is that you don't like facing the realities of climate change, and you are not going to change your mind no matter what anyone says.

I'm not sure that Franktalk actually cares very much about climate change, or about the physics of magnetism for that matter.

The fact is that a message board is a good place to get attention if you can't get it many other ways. You just turn up, and espouse a point of view that you know that several people there will find perverse and misleading. Now if you did that in (say) a bar, people might well not pay you much mind, apart from saying 'You don't say?' and looking around to see if they can see a friend on the other side of the room to escape to.

But if you do it on a message board, people who wouldn't waste time engaging you on an individual basis will feel obliged to answer you, because if they don't they fear that some lurker may conclude that (e.g.) maybe the United Nations really is controlled by the LIzard People.

And any time you want some attention, you just turn up and start it all over again. People will answer you, posting graphs, references to scientific papers and so on. All of which you can just ignore. Until, that is, they get so bored out of their head that they just won't play anymore. That point has, I think, pretty well been reached with Franktalk.

[_Franktalk]

Here is a graph showing the earth's past. It shows the earth's temperature and the amount of CO2 in the air. Someone point out the best temperature for the earth and the best amount of CO2. If you can't then how do you know that we should reduce the amount of CO2?

[_The CCC]

It is us.
SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXgDrr6qiUk

[_Franktalk]

It is us.
SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXgDrr6qiUk

I accept the need to reduce CO2 in the long term. We should do this by new technology. I think we should keep the CO2 levels below 700 ppm or somewhere around that number. But that discussion is not related to global warming. Making the case for CO2 limits based on human need is something I accept. I do not accept limiting the CO2 in the atmosphere because of climate. As the CO2 levels increase we will see plants respond to that change and this will moderate the rise. I suspect it will be more dramatic than most are willing to accept.

I am helping a project along that is working on a new energy source. One that is clean. So I am doing what I can personally to help. I am doing this because I feel we should have access to cheap energy that is clean. Not because I am afraid of climate change.

[_Gunnar]

I am helping a project along that is working on a new energy source. One that is clean. So I am doing what I can personally to help. I am doing this because I feel we should have access to cheap energy that is clean. Not because I am afraid of climate change.

Well, that much is commendable on your part. It is probably the most important thing we can do to mitigate and slow undesirable climate change, and weaning ourselves off of dependence on fossil fuels is an excellent and even essential goal, even if climate change were not problematic. Unfortunately, many climate change deniers seem hell bent on opposing even that.

[_DoubtingThomas]

Here is a graph showing the earth's past. It shows the earth's temperature and the amount of CO2 in the air. Someone point out the best temperature for the earth and the best amount of CO2. If you can't then how do you know that we should reduce the amount of CO2

LOL your graph is from the conservative american thinker! Pathetic! See why it is so pathetic
https://youtu.be/OJ6Z04VJDco?t=6m35s

[_Franktalk]

LOL your graph is from the conservative american thinker! Pathetic! See why it is so pathetic
https://youtu.be/OJ6Z04VJDco?t=6m35s

Then please put up a graph of the temperature of the earth and history of CO2 that you accept. But it must go back in time as much as my graph.

[_DoubtingThomas]

LOL your graph is from the conservative american thinker! Pathetic! See why it is so pathetic
https://youtu.be/OJ6Z04VJDco?t=6m35s

Then please put up a graph of the temperature of the earth and history of CO2 that you accept. But it must go back in time as much as my graph.

It's also in the video



So, what ended snowball Earth?

[Guest]

I am helping a project along that is working on a new energy source. One that is clean. So I am doing what I can personally to help. I am doing this because I feel we should have access to cheap energy that is clean. Not because I am afraid of climate change.

Well, that much is commendable on your part. ...

The intention is certainly commendable.

Unfortunately, if this device is the one that Franktalk has described previously it appears to be a perpetual motion machine (technically a perpetual motion machine of the first kind - there are three), in that its power output (units of work output per second) is claimed to be larger than its power input (units of energy input per second). If it worked as described, it would violate the first law of thermodynamics. There is an immense stack of evidence that such violations simply do not occur in this universe - certainly not in the context of the kind of device one can assemble in a garage. Hence Franktalk's efforts are, regrettably, not likely to succeed.

There are however several clean renewable energy sources already in development. If Franktalk wants to help the human race, he would be better off investing his time, energy and money into helping to develop and promote these.

[Edited once for typo: "energy output" -> "energy imput"]

[_Gunnar]

The intention is certainly commendable.

Unfortunately, if this device is the one that Franktalk has described previously it appears to be a perpetual motion machine (technically a perpetual motion machine of the first kind - there are three), in that its power output (units of work output per second) is claimed to be larger than its power input (units of energy output per second). If it worked as described, it would violate the first law of thermodynamics. There is an immense stack of evidence that such violations simply do not occur in this universe - certainly not in the context of the kind of device one can assemble in a garage. Hence Franktalk's efforts are, regrettably, not likely to succeed.

There are however several clean renewable energy sources already in development. If Franktalk wants to help the human race, he would be better off investing his time, energy and money into helping to develop and promote these.]

I had forgotten about the perpetual motion machine that he earlier referred to. If that is what he was talking about, we can be sure that his efforts will be less than useless.