The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

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_Franktalk
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Franktalk »

Fence Sitter wrote:Frank,

How does your description of photons traveling through space and glass vary from what is generally believed?

Thanks


Hold on to your hat because to do this requires a trip to Fantasy Island. In the orthodox position one must accept that time changes, that dimensionality changes, that the entire universe will stand on its head to keep the speed of light constant. So when light slows down in glass orthodox science changes what is called space-time to keep the light going the same speed.

Let DrW wave his arms and spout out a bunch of smart sounding words to make it appear that only really smart educated people can possibly understand what truly is going on in physics.

I am sorry I can't give you a quick soundbite about orthodox field theory. It is designed to make a class of people. It is not designed to explain nature.
_Maksutov
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Maksutov »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Well, when you have such devastating insights such as, "... a photon which is a mushy ball of magnetic and electrostatic radiation." I'm left wondering why we even bother funding research institutions at all.

- Doc


If you read him closely he's basically calling all scientists, including DrW, liars and frauds. The insecurity, it hurts. :wink:

https://skullsinthestars.com/2008/01/04 ... crackpots/

3. An obsession with ad hominem attacks, or a focus on criticizing individuals rather than theories. Crackpots will often focus their attacks and attention on the ‘founding fathers’ of a scientific theory. These attacks may be honorably limited to the research of the individual, but just as often as not become personal attacks on a researcher’s character.

Darwin is the most common target for ad hominem attacks. Creationists love to tell the story of how he recanted on his deathbed (not true), and are eager to point out that Darwin knew very little mathematics (not that they know any more than he did, in most cases). Einstein is usually not slandered, but there is a special emphasis on trying to find flaws in his original papers.

Such arguments are completely irrelevant, in any case. Science, strictly speaking, does not care about the character of an individual, only how well his theories hold up against reality. Furthermore, as mentioned above, successful theories grow beyond the vision of their ‘parent’, changing to incorporate new experimental evidence and growing stronger with each new independent confirmation. Metaphorically speaking, figures such as Darwin and Einstein only gave birth to their theories: generations of scientists since then have adopted those theories, helped them grow and become stronger.

4. Constant references to a conspiracy against the author’s results. When science dismisses, ignores, or mocks the work of the crackpot, it is never the crackpot’s fault: either the audience of scientists are too ‘vain and ignorant’ to comprehend the genius at work, or the scientists are actively conspiring to hide THE TRUTH from the general public, for reasons of ideology or self-interest.

Creationists love to make this accusation. Their ‘creation science’ is only ignored because scientists are afraid to challenge the establishment or because scientists are attempting to fulfill some sort of atheistic conspiracy.

It is true that science is a human endeavor, and is potentially subject to all the human foibles such as greed, lust for power, pride, and jealousy. (Check out Great Feuds in Science for a description of ten of the liveliest fights.) The community as a whole, however, is quite self-regulating in a “free-market” manner: for every scientist who might want to suppress a new discovery for selfish reasons, there are numerous others who would love to take credit for making that discovery.

Science as a whole is a somewhat conservative discipline: radical changes in thought are resisted until undeniable evidence is presented in its favor. The fact that crackpots are ignored has nothing to do with conspiracy and everything to do with their utter lack of evidence.

5. An extreme view that an established scientific theory is “completely wrong”. I used to get spam email regularly (another sign of a crackpot) from a person in China with the header, “Uncertainty principle is untenable!” I never bothered to read the message, but I doubt that I missed any revelatory new physics.

Crackpots are typically not only convinced that a theory is flawed, but that the theory is completely wrong. Our relativity denialists take issue with Einstein’s founding postulates, and with that belief, feel free to ignore all supporting evidence that comes along.

6. Criticisms of existing theories which rely on “common sense”. This particular branch of’ ‘crackpottery’ reminds me of a personal anecdote. Years ago I was wandering through the lamp department of a Service Merchandise store, when I noticed bright red signs prominently displayed: “CAUTION! Light bulbs are hot! Do not touch!”

Common sense is evidently a terribly inaccurate method of understanding the world! I’ve mentioned in previous posts numerous modern “common sense” ideas which were anything but when first proposed, among them: Newton’s laws, heliocentrism, the germ theory of disease, the brain as the center of intelligence, the theory of atoms.

For relativity denialists, the idea that space and time are intermingled violates common sense. They have no strong quantitative criticism of the theory (which they probably don’t understand anyway), only a mushy notion that it “feels funny”. Relativity felt funny to a lot of people, who raised objections to the theory in the form of apparent paradoxes — all of which were resolved successfully. The lesson physicists learned from this is that “common sense” is an artifact of our limited perceptions and place in the universe. In fact, modern science was really born when people realized that the universe might work differently in circumstances different from those experienced in daily life.

7. A complete absence of quantitative analysis. In a 165-page “primer” on geocentricity (discussed in another post), the long-disavowed notion that the Earth is the center of the universe, a crank author uses no calculations to back up his extravagant alternative theory of celestial motion. He claims the theory works just fine, but does it? Without calculations which can be checked for errors and compared to experiment, there’s no immediate way to tell. The relativity denialists mentioned earlier also present no quantitative results to back up their ideas, only appeals to “common sense”. The Templeton Foundation, a group dedicated to promoting the links of science and religion, once asked for proponents of intelligent design (dressed-up creationism) to submit research proposals. “They never came in,” said the Foundation’s senior vice president.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Philo Sofee
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Outstanding link Mak!!!! THANK YOU, it is a very helpful summary....

I remember as a kid when I first learned the earth and Solar System was traveling through space at thousands of miles an hour asking why my hair didn't blow as it does when I stick my head out the window in the car..... common sense said the earth wasn't moving at thousands of miles an hour. I could not grasp how it worked.....at first.......
Dr CamNC4Me
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_Franktalk
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Franktalk »

Philo Sofee wrote:
What is the prime mover being left out?


It changes from equation to equation. In most cases time needed to be added. Like Newton's equation on gravity. It works somewhat in a motionless environment. But when bodies move you must allow for time delay of effects. It all does get pretty complex. But one of the things that pops out from doing this work is the various manifestations of gravity. Like a star that has a large mass of plasma streaming in will produce what most would call strange gravity effects. One can also model the spin induced in objects as they pass by other objects in space. The other thing the author did was to show how gravity and electromagnetics have similar mathematical model structures.

To my knowledge no one has modeled the ether yet. And I don't recall that the author of the book I recommended to DrW added the ether as a prime mover. I think we need another Maxwell to make that leap. Then another Heaviside to decipher the equations for us mortals. The closest I have seen to an ether model is from Ken Wheeler. I suspect what he has is close but not quite there yet. When it does come it will be simple and probably supply us with the grand unification.
_Maksutov
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Maksutov »

Philo Sofee wrote:Outstanding link Mak!!!! THANK YOU, it is a very helpful summary....

I remember as a kid when I first learned the earth and Solar System was traveling through space at thousands of miles an hour asking why my hair didn't blow as it does when I stick my head out the window in the car..... common sense said the earth wasn't moving at thousands of miles an hour. I could not grasp how it worked.....at first.......


Image

According to ancient and medieval science, aether (Greek: αἰθήρ aithēr[1]), also spelled æther or ether, also called quintessence, is the material that fills the region of the universe above the terrestrial sphere.[2] The concept of aether was used in several theories to explain several natural phenomena, such as the traveling of light and gravity. In the late 19th century, physicists postulated that aether permeated all throughout space, providing a medium through which light could travel in a vacuum, but evidence for the presence of such a medium was not found in the Michelson–Morley experiment, and this result has been interpreted as meaning that no such luminiferous aether exists.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element)
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Philo Sofee
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Franktalk
To my knowledge no one has modeled the ether yet.


If memory serves me right, Einstein demonstrated the ether wasn't a factor, and the Michelson/Morley experiment demonstrated it not existing. Has there been another experiment I have missed that has now demonstrated the ether actually exists? If so, where can I read about it? Thanks.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Maksutov
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Maksutov »

Fixed it for ya.

Philo Sofee wrote:
Franktalk
To my knowledge no one has modeled the pink unicorn yet.




So what about that Prime Mover? Bueller?
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Gadianton
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Gadianton »

Franktalk wrote: But where are the real advancements? Anti-gravity, teleportation, time dilation, unlimited clean energy, and others.


The book you recommended to Dr. W., that you haven't read and never will read, almost certainly does not undertake to demonstrate anything you're talking about. The book appears to me to be more philosophical in nature, an interpretation of Maxwell's equations rather than anything that would lead to startling new physics. In fact, given the author is hung up on a scientific theory being "causal" in nature, it's unlikely he'd be into "developments" that trivially violate causality such as teleportation (I'm assuming you mean "instantaneous").

Franktalk wrote:So when light slows down in glass orthodox science changes what is called space-time to keep the light going the same speed.


No it doesn't. That's not the orthodox science explanation.

Your own explanation that Cam saved for us "just in case" you dry out and need a reminder about what you said, is so absurd that I almost can't believe even you wrote it. It does prove one important point about pseudoscience. Cranks aim for explanations that make the world easy to visualize in terms of basic, everyday, billiard-ball mechanics, but these pool tables are supercharged with magical powers.

For example, the only thing you want out of the book you recommended is the suggestion that there is a common, independent cause to both electricity and magnetism. Even though you haven't read the book, and have no idea about what he's really saying, you're going to take a rather empirically meager suggestion and run with it through fantasy land. It's easy for us to visualize in billiard-ball mechanics, a "common source", some other "thing" that drives electricity and magnetism, and then go around telling people if we can tap into that "source" then we can create wonders. Or take your mushy ball of electrostatic stuff: we can visualize it squishing through things and take *whatever*, such as creating its own space, as the magic by which it happens. We can accept He-Man's sword because, well, it's a sword. We can sweep under the rug all the magic as long as we have an every-day thing we can easily visualize that contains it.

Tell us, who is your real source? It's not Jefimenko.
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Philo Sofee »

I'm with Gadianton here Franktalk. He is nailing it down well ya know....... ya gotta have *outstanding* evidence for the claims you appear to be making. Your postulation of the ether is enough to make me go hmmmmmm. Truly, it's time to ante-up.
Dr CamNC4Me
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Re: The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Franktalk
I am sorry I can't give you a quick soundbite about orthodox field theory. It is designed to make a class of people. It is not designed to explain nature.


That is just nonsense. Sean Carroll's newest analysis "The Big Picture" (one among many hundreds of books that come out annually) exactly is doing what you say "orthodoxy" (a misnomer in science as you should know) doesn't do.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
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