Trump's "Non-Starter"

[_Res Ipsa]

https://www.fedweek.com/issue-briefs/demographics-of-federal-workforce-summarized/

I just want it noted that the Leftist Loonies on this board are ok with hundreds of thousands of women and minorities being put out of work because the Democrats don't want to give Trump his money. This is racism and misogyny, pure and simple. Knowing the Wall won't stop illegal immigration really underscores this point, that they're willing to take away money from women and minorities as a political bargaining chip.

- Doc

I just want it noted that Doc believes in rewarding hostage takers.

Yeah, that moves us toward a solution.

[_Jersey Girl]

I think it's bizarre no one here is wondering why the Left, or the Democrats in this case, think it's ok to not give Trump money for a wall that they don't believe will work, can't get built anyway, and is a drop in the bucket for the overall budget. Weird how scoring political points is more important than putting women and minorities back to work protecting our country, running our national parks, and serving a vital role in our national repjtation.

- Doc

Because...the Democrats don't want him throwing a foot-stomping-shut-down-the-government-tantrum every time he wants something.

And he doesn't want to do what the Democrats are asking (open the gov't and negoitiate afterward) because he doesn't think the Democrats will negotiate jack and he's trying to save face or some other body part or parts in the eyes of the public, I mean, his base.

So, good luck with that boys and girls. Let's see who can hold their breath the longest okay?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I was just watching the NBC Nightly News broadcast, and a black TSA worker was interviewed. The man is out of money. He's at the end of his rope. This Friday affordable housing recipients will run out of money to pay their bills.

I care more about that man and those people than I do politicians' egos or a retarded white elephant wall in the Southwest.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

I was just watching the NBC Nightly News broadcast, and a black TSA worker was interviewed. The man is out of money. He's at the end of his rope. This Friday affordable housing recipients will run out of money to pay their bills.

I care more about that man and those people than I do politicians' egos or a r____ white elephant wall in the Southwest.

- Doc

Why does the US have a policy of not paying ransoms? Is it because they don't care about hostages?

[_honorentheos]

I care more about that man and those people than I do politicians' egos or a retarded white elephant wall in the Southwest.

- Doc

So do I. If you want something done about it, blaming Democrats for not caving to Trump for using people like him as leverage is the wrong move. Shutdowns happen because both sides believe they can make the other come out looking worse for it. No one goes in thinking it's going to be praised as a good move. Making it clear Trump can get what he wants rather than finding ways for him to share in the pain he is causing is a gross misunderstanding of the dynamics of a shutdown...in fact it's basically playing into the motive for one being started.

Thing is, you don't strike me as someone who doesn't get that. So...where is this really coming from if not from a subbie-level of ignorance, ajax-levels of immigrant hate or the usual liberal hate that drives most conservatives to dittohead whatever Fox tells them?

[_Dr Exiled]

I think Trump's wall nonsense has been played. He needs to come back to reality and find a way to back away from the wall while declaring victory or whatever, so long as the government resumes. Maybe he can say that the few billion the Democrats are offering is a step in the right direction? Then after a while he can pivot to reality based reasoning and move on to a real solution to the non-problem of illegals coming across the boarder? It really isn't a problem .... but plays well to his racist octogenarian fox news supporters.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I care more about that man and those people than I do politicians' egos or a retarded white elephant wall in the Southwest.

- Doc

So do I. If you want something done about it, blaming Democrats for not caving to Trump for using people like him as leverage is the wrong move. Shutdowns happen because both sides believe they can make the other come out looking worse for it. No one goes in thinking it's going to be praised as a good move. Making it clear Trump can get what he wants rather than finding ways for him to share in the pain he is causing is a gross misunderstanding of the dynamics of a shutdown...in fact it's basically playing into the motive for one being started.

Thing is, you don't strike me as someone who doesn't get that. So...where is this really coming from if not from a subbie-level of ignorance, ajax-levels of immigrant hate or the usual liberal hate that drives most conservatives to dittohead whatever Fox tells them?

Well, I blame both sides and their egos. Where this is coming from is my sense of empathy. I'm starting to see the effect this shutdown is having on millions. We already know the Right is totally compromised. I don't see why the Left can't give Trump this one. We have basically a year and half before serious electioneering will take place, and the memory of this compromise will be long gone by then.

The Wall, whatever Trump thinks it's gong to be simply won't happen. Between legal challenges if he attempts eminent domain and undermining EPA standards, and the simple reality of where he can build and what he can build will result in a rusting monument to his stupidity.

Meanwhile we have millions directly affected by this. Most of them are women and minorities, the very people the Looney Tunes on this board purport to care about. They're not thinking this through.

- Doc

[_honorentheos]

So in your view the argument caving to Trump sets a precedent that will lead to this occurring more and more often as wrong? The only concern that motivates Democrats is related to denying Trump a victory ahead of 2020?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

1. So in your view the argument caving to Trump sets a precedent that will lead to this occurring more and more often as wrong? 2. The only concern that motivates Democrats is related to denying Trump a victory ahead of 2020?

1. I think the precedent has already been set. I'd like to think Congress could pass some sort of legislation limiting the Executive Office's power because it's become too expansive and too powerful. However, when I googled 'how many times has the government been shut down' an autofill from Google brought up the above-query and 'since 1976'. So, I was like, "Ok. Let's check that out."

Here's what it says:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/e ... 976-to-now

Lawmakers and President Donald Trump are still at an impasse over the $5.7 billion the president wants for a border wall. This amount is about 0.5 percent of the government’s discretionary spending each year and 0.1 percent of the nation’s total annual budget.

And here's the already-set-precedent of shutting down the government since 1976:



2. I think the Democrats think this can work to their favor since Trump dumbly stated that he'd own this. They think they can entrench, and that the American people will mostly side with them. I think they're prepared to go far too long, and when the real effects on our markets, loans defaulting, banks panicking, basically another 2007 Black Swan-esque event occurs they'll come up with something.

Imho, I think if they were to 'make a deal' with Trump this will be quickly forgotten and we can get back to impeaching Trump and prepping for a busy DNC primaries without hurting the very people Democrats say they champion. I think Democrats have the moral obligation to do what's right because it's simply impossible for the Right to do it. Someone has to do it, because there are a lot of people who live paycheck to paycheck depending on the government to get this done.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

The triviality of the issue is precisely why it's important to not let someone hold the functioning of the government and livelihoods up over it. Constitutional hardball is less acceptable, not more acceptable the more piddly you make the issue seem.