On audits, elections and public trust

[Gunnar]

I am good with it enough. I do not like the digital voting (without the paper ballot).

I'm with you on that, especially if the digital voting doesn't generate hard copy, printed and viewable verification of the votes.

[Chap]

I am good with it enough. I do not like the digital voting (without the paper ballot).

I'm with you on that, especially if the digital voting doesn't generate hard copy, printed and viewable verification of the votes.

Me too. Given that the Russians seem to be capable of hacking into pretty well any US system they wish, the idea of a vote without a paper trace seems nuts, at least until the hacking problem is solved by quantum computing.

But has paperless digital voting every been an issue of contention in relation to the last election? So far as I can recall, Trumpist claims of fraud in the voting process have all involved stories of alleged mysterious deliveries of huge truckfulls of voting papers in Biden's favour.

And it is right to say that voting by mail has previously been quite acceptable to Republicans - until they lost the election and needed an excuse, of course. Trump himself voted by mail last time.

[Moksha]

74% of Republicans say that it was Antifa that participated in the January 6th Treason Weasel Insurrection.

you too?

Me? Hey, I'm just glad we can officially wear white after Memorial Day without offending the Hamptons Good Taste Committee.

Given that the Russians seem to be capable of hacking into pretty well any US system they wish, ...

Oh yeah, then why isn't Trump President now?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

- Politico

I’m a little mystified where all this hostility toward mail-in voting originated for ME? It’s fine, even the GOP loves it.

- Doc

unreal. absolutely unbelievable.

You’re acting like your hand waving and assertions make any sense and are somehow grounded in reality. I literally show you a quote that the GOP is fine with mail-in voting and you act like that’s ‘unreal’. The fact the right-wing has to invent the term “blue anon” to fashion a counter argument to Qanon, a term they themselves embrace, is so goddamn ironic that I’m left wondering if you understand what you’re posting at all.

- Doc

[Icarus]

In case anyone thought about giving ME the benefit of the doubt that he isn't a complete moron...

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[Mayan Elephant]

I literally show you a quote that the GOP is fine with mail-in voting and you act like that’s ‘unreal’. The fact the right-wing has to invent the term “blue anon” to fashion a counter argument to Qanon, a term they themselves embrace, is so goddamn ironic that I’m left wondering if you understand what you’re posting at all.

- Doc

you did not literally show me a quote that the GOP is fine with mail-in voting. You cut a quote out of something that may have been completely out of context and you suggested that I was being hostile. You want hostile? Go F*** yourself. Can you see the difference between me telling you to go “F” yourself and me saying I won't vote in an election that uses vote by mail? Perhaps you do not understand what hostile actually means. You have another dick like you on here telling me to blow my brains out, and your half-wit cut and paste is some "literal" proof that I am hostile and that the rest of the GOP is fine with mail in voting?

The right wing does not embrace QAnon, you twit. A bunch of clowns embrace QAnon, you twit. And if you cannot see the difference, perhaps you should bronze yourself and make yourself the poster child of this thread and the parent thread about ideologies and fault lines.

The right wing did not invent the term Blue Anon, you ideological twit. An individual did. And your failure to understand that without lumping the entire right wing, which you understand to be half the country 's voters and more than half the voters of most states. And you think that, because your ideology and need to be a clownass victim and a harassingly insulting prick is more important than the facts, apparently. Because, so far, nothing you said has been factual - but it is very dickish, so congratulations for that.

And, you are member of Blue Anon as it is described. You seem to embrace every hair-brained clownish thing you can find from one side, particularly if it is ridiculously insulting of the other side, regardless of truth or fact. Whatever individual (not wing) came up with that term must have had you in mind.

Thanks again for your contribution. I wish this was on the other thread because damn, just damn, you are like the supermodel of ideological dicks.

[Mayan Elephant]

In case anyone thought about giving ME the benefit of the doubt that he isn't a complete moron...

Sure, just keep it up there manchild. You posted a picture from Twitter, without any context, and you need others ("anyone") to validate your conclusion that I am a moron.

Perhaps they should come to that conclusion, but based on what? Your meltdown? Your feelings? Your insults? Or the facts?

You seem to want them to come to that conclusion based on a meme or need for some group solidarity that validates your ideology. Do you have a better argument than that? Or, are you merely making an emphatic exclamation about the topic of the thread and the OP which is that ideology, specifically among so-called liberal so-called post-Mormons, is so extreme that lobbing insults or conspiracies or whatever across fault lines is the only tactic in your (and "anyone" else's) toolkit?

Have you learned nothing? You seem to still have a testimony of things that are only seen with someone else's spiritual eyes.

[Mayan Elephant]

Me too. Given that the Russians seem to be capable of hacking into pretty well any US system they wish, the idea of a vote without a paper trace seems nuts, at least until the hacking problem is solved by quantum computing.

I agree on the paper trace. The Russia hoax is alive and well, I see.

But has paperless digital voting every been an issue of contention in relation to the last election? So far as I can recall, Trumpist claims of fraud in the voting process have all involved stories of alleged mysterious deliveries of huge truckfulls of voting papers in Biden's favour.

Trumpist? Mmmmkay.

The delivery of ballots is not disputed. However, standing and laches in sequence put that conversation to rest. Your claim here is not factual. Not "all" claims of fraud involved a mysterious delivery. There were other claims, but again, standing then laches put that conversation to rest too.

I would put your argument solidly in Blue Anon territory. If in fact someone has told you that ALL claims involved a mysterious delivery, you got duped. Sorry.

And it is right to say that voting by mail has previously been quite acceptable to Republicans - until they lost the election and needed an excuse, of course. Trump himself voted by mail last time.

Again, nonsense. Complete and total nonsense. But keep on keeping on. It is true that some Republicans were cool with it. It is true that some were not. It is true that some courts and governors changed the voting by mail process without the consent of all republicans. And it is true that the vote by mail was an issue before the election. Remember the Blue Anon/Media/Pelosi organized hoax about the post office? VBM was obviously an issue before the election.

And further, personally I could not care less about the GOP. In fact, I think McConnell is one of the biggest crooks and clowns to ever participate in politics and have thought that for much of my adult life. Romney is a douchebag of the highest and most dangerous order, and always has been. McConnell is a POS of the most dangerous order, and always has been. I would vote for Gallagher over Romney. And, for the record, I have cast an in person vote, on paper, for Gallagher in my lifetime. If he were running against Romney I would vote often.

[Chap]

In Iowa, the Republican Party mailed absentee ballot applications to voters without waiting for requests. In Pennsylvania, the GOP’s website promotes voting by mail: "Vote Safe: By mail. From home.” And in Ohio, the Republican Party sent mailers with Trump’s photo saying “Join President Trump and Vote by Absentee Ballot.”

- Politico

I’m a little mystified where all this hostility toward mail-in voting originated for ME? It’s fine, even the GOP loves it.

- Doc

The Pennsylvania GOP website has a REGISTERING TO VOTE page

Which includes the text:

VOTING BY ABSENTEE OR MAIL-IN BALLOT
Pennsylvania allows voters who can’t make it to the polls on Election Day to vote by absentee or mail-in ballot.

and links to this page:

Voting by mail-in or absentee ballot is safe, secure, and easy.

There is no sign there that the party wishes to suggest to potential voters that there is any problem about mail-in voting.

[Gadianton]

I am good with it enough. I do not like the digital voting (without the paper ballot). I would not vote on one of those. The single time that I saw one, I simply asked to use the paper ballot and they let me do that.

Okay, so I did a 10 minute survey of high-tech recommendations for voter security. It looks like your recommendations are in the ballpark.

Here is a paper from MIT rejecting the blockchain suggestion I made (blockchain would trivialize the audit in one respect, but there are lots of tradeoffs)

https://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/pubs/PSNR20.pdf

The top row and the left column of Table 1 are respectively strongly preferable to the bottom row and
the right column in terms of security risk. We consider the top row suitable for political elections, with
in-person voting preferable to mail-in voting wherever feasible (as indicated by their graduated green color).
Importantly, top-row systems are software independent; bottom-row systems are not.
We consider the bottom row unsuitable for political elections for the foreseeable future, due to their lack
of software independence and the greater risk of compromise compared to corresponding alternatives in the
top row. Sections 2–3 explain this heightened risk.

The surprising power of paper A natural but mistaken inclination is to entirely replace existing voting
methods with the latest digital technologies. Some ask: “Why wait in polling place lines to cast votes on
clunky old voting machines, when votes could be cast from voters’ computers and phones over the Internet —
using the same security protocols protecting online shopping, banking, cryptocurrency transactions?”

But, perhaps counterintuitively, getting rid of not only outdated voting equipment but also paper ballots
risks “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” and making elections much less secure.

MIT's suggestions are closer to your suggestions than my gut approximation was prior to investing the 10 minutes. Where they differ, is that while they see remote voting as less secure than in-person voting, they do not see remote voting as fundamentally insecure. Interestingly, you mentioned that you don't like digital voting, but your implication was that it's preferable to mail-in ballots. In other words, you wouldn't use a voting machine, but it seems like you're good with participating in an election where they are available, whereas mail-in ballots are a show stopper.

To compare:

ME:

In person paper ballot (best), digital in-person (meh), mail-in ballot (complete show-stopper).

MIT:

In person paper ballot (best), mail-in ballot (meh), digital in-person (inadvisable, much less secure).

Not to say that MIT is guaranteed to be right. Their recommendations paced articles in Scientific America and computer world, and so I think it's a good baseline.