More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

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_Droopy
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

OK, so look, Cam sends me to a black power/black separatist/leftist/neo-Marxist blog for a critique of William's book that is, not surprisingly, negative (this guy's blogroll links to Religion Dispatches, and hence...Joanna Brooks, so he must be a stand up guy, uppity or not).

In an attempt to gleen from the entire essay there what Cam is trying to get at (but won't argue himself, preferring to spend most of his time here posting insulting graphics and symbolically making faces), I came up with this:

Williams fails to truly engage hip hop culture in the context of this book.


such an inability to dialogue with hip hop was more than a disappointment.


Williams is black, identifies as black, and grew up listening to and living the inner city Hip-Hop lifestyle, and yet he does not understand Hip-Hop and cannot "dialogue" with it, as can the "Uppity Negro."

and for the duration of the second half of the book I became with the most insipid barrage of racial and cultural stereotypes that I had ever read in a long time.


Williams is black, came from the inner city, and lived the lifestyle, and yet "Uppity Negro" claims to somehow understand it better than Williams. Perhaps "Uppity Negro" might wish to take a look the description of his past life at his own book website:

Like many young men in America, Thomas Chatterton Williams grew up in awe of Tupac Shakur, Biggie Smalls, and the parade of bling-bedecked rap stars he saw on Black Entertainment Television. Williams emulated their lifestyle - sporting chains and expensive designer clothes purchased for him by his girlfriends, who were themselves little more than accessories to Williams. He and his friends roamed the streets, maintaining their status by intimidating passersby.


Somewhere, in a place I’m sure Williams does not want to touch anytime soon, he’ll have to come to grips with his own warped point of view.


Or "Uppity Negro" (what on odd appellation to place on one's own persona, as a black man, in this day and age. Bizarre, is far closer to the reality here, and bespeaks yet the same, squalid destruction of an otherwise fine mind by ideology) will eventually have come to grips with the reality around him in which he is embedded.

I find it highly problematic that throughout the book Williams has no qualms about problematizing the entire hip hop culture with one broad brush as if to be totally ignorant of it nuances.


Uppity Negro either hasn't really read the book, or is greasing his own ideological skids here. In the Amazon interview, just for one example, Williams is clear:

Q: Do Kanye, Jay-Z, and other current rap superstars have anything to offer society?

The thing I want to stress here is that it has never been my aim or desire to criticize hip-hop from a musical or formal standpoint. For one thing, I’m not qualified to do that, and for another, I’m already convinced that it is formally very interesting and worthy of respect from a variety of perspectives.


That, doubtless, won't do for "Uppity Negro" because, for him, Hip-Hop validates and legitimizes the entire Pan-Africanist, black nationalist ideological prism from which he looks at American and racial dynamics:

Williams disdain for hip hop culture came off as a disdain for black American life.


Williams is black, has always been black, and is now black, and he grew up immersed in the very culture he is now critiquing, but notice how "Uppity Negro" attempts to pass himself off as somehow more "authentically" black then Williams, as somehow having a greater degree or intensity of "blackness" within himself than Williams? Notice how UN exaggerates and misrepresents Williams by claiming and/or implying that he is attacking [i]black culture
and black American life in an overarching sense?

But now, let's get to the meat and potatoes who who "Uppity Negro" really is and the intellectual template from which he is approaching William's book:

Once he made the decision to be a philosophy major and got introduced to the likes of Hegel, Nietzsche and Heidegger, he began to rationalize away that which hip hop had deposited into him. Now, as me and The Critical Cleric had discussed, and as I said in my blog a few days prior, there are some definitely anti-intellectual strands of hip hop, however, to forsake the cultural wealth that is hip hop culture by a) looking through the lens of white, homogenous, western philosophy to critique and b) equating ALL of young black culture with all of the negative aspects of hip hop culture is the epitome of myopia that is systemic of unbridled elitism that does more damage to the race you claim is in need of a reclaiming of the “discipline and the spirit we have lost.”

For Williams, as he stated in the epilogue that “more than thirty years the black world has revolved around the inventors of hip hop values, and this has been a decisive step backwards.” But, this reeks of the conservative mindset that rests in the notions of personal agency and personal responsibility but do not at all address systemic issues at play. For the entire book, Williams appears to leave underdeveloped characters as memorials to failures in the black community as a direct result of hip hop. Let me be clear, while well-written, his book flops as a serious cultural critique of young black American life because of his insistence on operating from stereotypes on hip hop culture as a dominant paradigm.


1. UP appears to believe, as do all racialist collectivists, that for any individual to abandon, or move away from that which collectively authenticates and defines the in-group is tantamount to a kind of in-group treason. UP believes there is "cultural wealth" within Hip-Hop and that this cultural wealth was "deposited" within Wlliams during his youth, and that he is now, in some sense, as a black man, betraying that cultural inheritance.

Once he made the decision to be a philosophy major and got introduced to the likes of Hegel, Nietzsche and Heidegger, he began to rationalize away that which hip hop had deposited into him


HORRORS! Thomas Chatterton Williams may have - gulp - stepped outside the boundaries of the leftist/Afrocentrist/cultural nationalist plantation. He appears to be harboring "conservative" philosophical deviations from critical race theory orthodoxy, among the most alarming features of which, for Uppity, are "notions of personal agency and personal responsibility."

This of course, is not compatible with the neo-Marxist/racialist lens through which Uppity sees the world, which he clarifies when he says that this upsetting concentration of personal agency and personal responsibility do not "address" the "systemic issues at play (i.e., the leftist concept of pervasively embedded institutional racism at every level of American culture and society).

He also misrepresents William's work as attacking all Hip-Hop and, through this, the entirety of American black culture.

Sound familiar?

There was once, long ago, a generation of liberals who, although taking issue with conservatives and libertarians on a number of issues, still held to the same fundamental core of American values that conservatives held to, and most issues between them were more about how best to achieve similar goals, and the degree to which the state should be involved in such measures.

That generation of liberals is now, for the most part gone, and "liberalism" has now become simply the Left. There is no more moderation, no more underlying shared values, and no more space for civil or reasoned debate between them.

That older liberalism, as well as contemporary conservative intellectuals, would look at Williams statement, when asked what he wanted people to take away from his book, when he says:

I hope that Losing My Cool will provoke readers black, white, old and young to question, critique, and ultimately reject more of the nonsense and conformity that surrounds us all.


With approbation. With the modern radical Left having essentially absorbed, corrupted, or excommunicated most of the last remaining moderate and reasoned elements that were once found among liberalism, all that is left is this: the standard black studies professor/lecturer/author/ideologue/race hustler, valiantly manning the parapets of the racialist castle and trying to keep any incipient individualism that might bubble up and seek to express itself outside the racial collective and upset the united front of racial solidarity that is so key to the continuance of the race-hustling industry and of the influence and power of people like Uppity in the academic and media world from capsizing the sepratist/victimology cruise ship.

Good choice of a reviewer, Cam. One of your own.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:28 am, edited 5 times in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

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_Droopy
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

Do you read your own posts? Like, at all? Possibly when you are mentally composing them? I feel like I'm getting caught up in an especially bizarre exercise in self-hate you are working out with yourself.


I'm just speaking truth to power, D.

Embrace the horror.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_richardMdBorn
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _richardMdBorn »

EAllusion wrote:Uh, Droopy, one of the things your notorious for in this little neck of the woods is being semi-literate. Your tendency to overuse SAT words, often incorrectly, in embarrassingly purple prose is a running joke. You dismiss professors who teach classes in literature trying to help you come off less ignorant both because you are so full of pride and because you are too semi-literate to recognize just how semi-literate you are.

Glassy houses, pointy rocks, and all that.
I don't normally point out typos. We're not writing term papers on the MB. But it's funny to read EA accuse Droopy of being semi-literate using your when the proper term is you're.
_EAllusion
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _EAllusion »

richardMdBorn wrote:I don't normally point out typos. We're not writing term papers on the MB. But it's funny to read EA accuse Droopy of being semi-literate using your when the proper term is you're.


You know the link I offer in this thread where Droopy says "turgid" instead of "turpid" because he doesn't know the difference? It's in one of his magniloquent, to borrow his unnecessary term, rants. It wasn't a typo. He didn't accidentally type "g" instead of "p" because he was typing quickly on autopilot. We know this because he goes on to defend the word choice of turgid, hilariously, for a little while until posters point out what turn of phrase he actually meant to use. Then, in classic Droopy fashion, he disappears from the board for a little while. Here, he claimed he only makes the occasional typo and never uses words incorrectly. So I linked a clear example of this being false. Long time posters have seen this pattern repeat itself numerous times over the years. That's why he flipped out, called me retarded, and generally projected every personal fault of his onto others.

He does this all the time, which makes him a particularly poor candidate to accuse others of being semi-literate.

Comparatively, do you think I don't know the difference between "your" and "you're?"
_Droopy
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

EAllusion wrote:
richardMdBorn wrote:I don't normally point out typos. We're not writing term papers on the MB. But it's funny to read EA accuse Droopy of being semi-literate using your when the proper term is you're.


You know the link I offer in this thread where Droopy says "turgid" instead of "turpid" because he doesn't know the difference? It's in one of his magniloquent, to borrow his unnecessary term, rants. It wasn't a typo. He didn't accidentally type "g" instead of "p" because he was typing quickly on autopilot. We know this because he goes on to defend the word choice of turgid, hilariously, for a little while until posters point out what turn of phrase he actually meant to use. Then, in classic Droopy fashion, he disappears from the board for a little while. Here, he claimed he only makes the occasional typo and never uses words incorrectly. So I linked a clear example of this being false. Long time posters have seen this pattern repeat itself numerous times over the years. That's why he flipped out, called me r*******, and generally projected every personal fault of his onto others.

He does this all the time, which makes him a particularly poor candidate to accuse others of being semi-literate.

Comparatively, do you think I don't know the difference between "your" and "you're?"



Here's a word. It begins with 'a' and ends with 'e'. You can use it interchangeably with "EAllusion." Yup, all of those are, indeed, typos - misperceptions or intellectual gaffs like a rare misspelling or juxtaposition of one word for another that slip through, just like when E adds an extra word to a sentence, making it ungrammatical, just as he's done in these threads on a couple of occasions now. Its very rare when I do it, its quite common among everyone else, but no matter. that's becomes the focus of every thread so long as it is a conservative/TBM who's name is associated with the OP.

Actually, I remember the use of the word "turgid" in a post, and that I explained why I had chosen the term, and not another that E., in his usual mind-reading mode (popular among others here, I should add) thought I should have used and thought I meant.

I mean to use each and every word I use, and the fact that E's reading comprehension levels and creativity in his use of the language are too primitive to allow for any more original, creatively stimulating usage and deployment of various terms as metaphor and symbol, is his problem.

It would help if E had linked to the thread in which I has used this word, to see the context. Like many other of the MDB Morlock's he's very good at high school cliquish attempts at making others look foolish and at strutting around with his intellectual nose in the air (heaven knows upon what basis), but comes up very short when he has to stand and deliver philosophically.

E has now avoided and danced nimbly away (as has both Cam and Beastie) from nearly every single point, argument, and observation either I or my linked sources (all of whom have been black, thus far, and among the most articulate critics of Hip-Hop culture in America) have made regarding the salient issues and concerns raised by this discussion of underclass music/pop-culture and its effects on, primarily, black Americas and their prospects for progress and success.

There is plenty of food for thought here, and grist for serious, mature, civil, critical discussion and debate, but, as is usual, the lion's share of the time, as is the case with bc, William, Wade, or with anyone else who does not partake of the Platonic, Olympian pretensions of the Anointed goes to high school clique sniggering.

And such it is.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Droopy wrote:E has now avoided and danced nimbly away (as has both Cam and Beastie) from nearly every single point, argument, and observation either I or my linked sources (all of whom have been black, thus far, and among the most articulate critics of Hip-Hop culture in America) have made regarding the salient issues and concerns raised by this discussion of underclass music/pop-culture and its effects on, primarily, black Americas and their prospects for progress and success.

There is plenty of food for thought here, and grist for serious, mature, civil, critical discussion and debate,


No, not really. The basis of the "criticism" seems to be nothing more than, "I don't like this music and feel threatened by it," which is really just a variation on, "I don't understand this," or perhaps even more accurately, "Kids these days!" You can't show any connection between "underclass music" and the way it impacts "their prospects for progress and success."
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_huckelberry
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _huckelberry »

EAllusion wrote:

Anyone who dismisses such a huge music genre, in either case, with such diversity is a philistine and probably an idiot.

Here's a wonderful country song Droopy no doubt identifies with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHAFmFsb9XM

Also, it's a dude singing about threatening violence against those he disagrees with politically. It's ironically quite anti-American in its attitudes. Does that earn Droopy's dehumanizing "Morlock" label? Of course not. Again, he probably identifies with it.



I finally found ,above, the country song in question in this thread. Following it's link lead me to Merle and Tammy Wynette singing "Today I started loving you again" beautiful. To miss that beauty a person needs either wooden ears or wood between them. Yes I remember when I understood "Fightin side of me" as a threat aimed at myself and my friends. I knew closer at hand more concrete violence from that ideological vantage point. As far as I am concerned Merle is forgiven, I can appreciate the song better now. Perhaps that is helped by other songs as well as being helped by his guitarist.

Perhaps I am helped to see outside of my dogma and college clique not only by the quality of the music but by such things as the link between Oke, "the kids here still respect the college dean" and Woody songs about the Joad family.

I like how music can wander outside of the prison cells of political dogma.
_Droopy
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

Doctor Scratch wrote:quote="Droopy"

There is plenty of food for thought here, and grist for serious, mature, civil, critical discussion and debate,


No, not really. The basis of the "criticism" seems to be nothing more than, "I don't like this music and feel threatened by it," which is really just a variation on, "I don't understand this," or perhaps even more accurately, "Kids these days!" You can't show any connection between "underclass music" and the way it impacts "their prospects for progress and success."


So that's what you've taken out of every argument, observation, and assertion made by me, Thomas Williams, Walter Williams, and John McWhorter on this subject, in all of these threads and in the links I provided?

Well, as usual, Scratch, when any subject comes up in which serious analysis and intellectual depth are required, you bow out.

Probably the better part of polemical valor on your part.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Droopy: You began this thread with a bizarre complaint about The Game, and how he supposedly can't deal with criticism, along with a lament about how you think that he's getting some kind of a "free pass" because of the color of his skin.

You never had a real point here, though I will say that the highlight of the thread was you boasting about your grasp of "film criticism," and how EA has no business challenging you in this "are." What a howler that was.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Droopy
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Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Droopy: You began this thread with a bizarre complaint about The Game,


Why is it bizarre?

and how he supposedly can't deal with criticism,


He made that quite clear himself through his bizarre, narcissistic, black skin privilege-immersed behavior.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/david-horo ... -pamphlet/

along with a lament about how you think that he's getting some kind of a "free pass" because of the color of his skin.


From the Left, yes, he is and will, generally speaking.


You never had a real point here,


"More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade."
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
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