Leftist Starbucks finds itself in the sites of liberal ire

[_ajax18]

She's gone and vilified because she's white. That's that. That's the truth and all you hypocrites know it. SHAME ON YOU ALL.

Do you think the manager has a case for defamation against Howard Schultz?

[_EAllusion]

The Starbucks in Philadelphia has a policy against loitering. Loitering had been a significant problem at that location and the manager said that she had some tense moments with loiterers in the past, including one incident where someone chased her around the store after refusing to leave.

Do you think the people who are on video on that day while being in the store at the same time as the black men were are simply lying about being able to be there, even allowed to use the locked bathroom, while being non-paying customers?

It's of course no defense to say the store had a policy that the manager was enforcing inconsistently on the basis of race. So do you think the people who say they were allowed to be there without buying something right away were liars? That's possible, of course, but if that's what you think, on what basis do you think it?

[_EAllusion]

DocCam describes this as them acting "belligerent," "trying to agitate", "trespassing, "complete and utter assholes," and acting with intent for "some sort of civil rights lawsuit in the hopes of getting a lot of free coffee." He describes people who criticize racial discrimination by businesses or people who support laws that make that illegal as behaving like Nazis.

I was making a reference to Marx, but I guess my sense of humor was too subtle.



- Doc

Not Naziism. Marxism. Got it. Opposing racial discrimination on the part of businesses, either morally or legally, = Marxism.

I suppose that view, civil rights as communism, has an actual pedigree in the United States.

[_EAllusion]

Usually what happens in racial cases like this is people try to drag up every single negative act the black people might've engaged in their entire lives to suggest whatever ill-treatment they received was comin' to them. Often, it's finding evidence they used marijuana at some point. Because smoking a joint proves you're a bad dude who probably was rightfully killed by the police.

While it's reported that one of the two people has been pulled over and had charges dismissed against him a bunch of times, suggesting racial profiling, nothing else has come up yet as far as I know. They just might be squeaky clean, because you'd expect that angle to have hit by now. I don't know. We'll see.

That's literally not what's happening. At all.

____ ing EAllusion making up ____ as usual so he can pass his totally-not-a-Marxist agenda off on all the crypto-racists who're acting all outraged at this.

Jesus.



- Doc

What's not happening? I said what usually happens in stories like this isn't happening. Is this a double negative? Are you saying that it is happening? I'm fresh out of bones to read.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Why do you hate women so much?

- Doc

[_Doctor Steuss]

This particular incident has me getting dizzy from my own flip-flopping and thought pretzels.

Starbucks is often a default “meet you at” venue and it’s treated much like a public space; and, in my limited experience working with managers and franchise owners (many will often donate their leftover pastries for the homeless), this atmosphere and perception of a “public space” is what they try to encourage and foster.

Need a place to write a paper? Come here. Want to conduct a Craigslist transaction? We welcome you to use one of our locations. Need to meet someone? Drop on in. And so on…

When we were shopping for a wedding photographer, we met two potentials at a Starbucks (at their request). I think their coffee is crap, so other than the occasional cakepop for my kiddo, I rarely buy anything.

BUT… it’s still a private business.

Don’t know if anyone has seen Chappelle’s latest special. My noggin’ keeps popping up a variant of the main punchline “Cosby saves the world, but he also rapes.”

Starbucks is a public space, but it’s also a private business.

Cliff Notes: I sometimes just like to type a lot without actually contributing or saying anything.

[_EAllusion]

Starbucks is a public space, but it’s also a private business.

Cliff Notes: I sometimes just like to type a lot without actually contributing or saying anything.

Starbucks can adopt a policy of kicking people out if they arrive without buying anything right away or if they stay too long after their purchase. That's their prerogative. What they shouldn't do is enforce such a policy inconsistently and certainly not on the basis of race.

This case is particularly egregious because the manager called 911 to have the men removed. Not the non-emergency police line. She called 911. Even if you adopt the most generous assumptions possible, it's not a police emergency if two men are politely refusing to leave because of your franchise has decided to behave unlike how Starbucks are ordinarily set up. In fact, what the men report is that they initially just declined to order anything. I believe they claim they weren't even told to get out before the police were called and didn't think the police were there for them when they arrived. The whole point of having a franchise system is that customers, regardless of where they are, can walk in and expect similar products and services. Starbucks normally is a casual hang-out with a no-pressure to buy atmosphere. That's what you expect when you walk into one. Forgetting the serious race issue at play, a Starbucks kicking people who just arrived out because they are waiting to get a meeting going is like a McDonald's demanding you leave or having the police called on you when you ask for a refill on a drink. It's just weird and bad customer service even when we all agree that McDonald's doesn't have to offer free refills. When you take into account the charge that this was being solely directed at black men while whites received different treatment, that's when it becomes a flashpoint.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

911 is for EMERGENT situations. She called them after being cursed at.

Disgusting.

eta: This hard working woman, fluent in SPANISH, a grad student at La Salle, and an employee for four years was essentially was hung out to dry by men. No one cares about the woman in this instance. No one.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

911 is for EMERGENT situations. She called them after being cursed at.

Disgusting.

eta: This hard working woman, fluent in SPANISH, a grad student at La Salle, and an employee for four years was essentially was hung out to dry by men. No one cares about the woman in this instance. No one.

- Doc

911 is for emergencies where someone's saftey is in immediate jeopardy. The non-emergency police line is what you call for non-emergency police response.

I don't know what the local laws are there, but this is right on the cusp of what you might be fined for in many localities. Misuse of the 911 system by calling when no actual emergency exists or the caller lacks a good faith basis to believe there is an emergency is usually a fine and/or a little jail time if it was particularly bad. I work with some folks who unfortunately do this regularly and I have an on-going relationship with the local police to help navigate the problem.

911 is not for any emergent issue. I don't know where you got that.

[_Analytics]

I've seen homeless people use the restroom of businesses to bathe. They use the whole role of paper towels, steal the toilet paper. They'll even set tents up on the sidewalk or under the side of your roof? Can you ask them to leave? Can you call the police if they refuse? I guess not if you want to keep your job.

There was one store in Mobile, Alabama where the customers would defecate in the sinks. One boy stopped up the sinks with paper towels, turned on the water, and left. It costs the owners $3k. That was one time I was glad I didn't own the place.

No, the real question is whether a corporation can require a manager to treat its customers with respect and not be a racist. You seem to think the answer is no--managers should have the right to be racists and implement racist policies in their stores, and that the corporation should have no authority to fire them over it.