The Greatest NBA Player: 5 on 5 Clone Game

[_EAllusion]

I won't disagree with any of the above. I just figured if he had to defend not putting Jordan on his team AND argue defense beats offense then the one position in your starting 5s I thought made a reasonable case is at starting center.

In all honesty it seems to me Markk has a bias against being a good basketball player v. being a hatchet man roleplayer. It suggests how he may play himself, all elbows and body checks...;) Since he keeps asking if you even lift bro, errr, play I mean.

Just giving you crap, Markk.

But he left Stockton off the team. He's like the all-time great PG for cheap-shot elbows. The Dikembe Mutombo of point guards if you will.

[_EAllusion]

I allowed myself one traditional center on my team. The debate for me wasn't Kareem vs. Hakeem. It was Kareem vs. Chamberlain. Based on archival footage and limited raw data, I'm fairly certain that Chamberlain would be the most athletically gifted center today and it might not be close. His vert looks to be in the 40 inch rage. At his height! He was a freak of nature so aberrant that it holds up all the way into the present. Of any old-school player, he's the one I'm most confident you can time machine into the present and still have be dominant. I'm confident of Jabbar too, but Chamberlain's athleticism and skill level is eye-popping. At his peak, he displayed the ability to do everything as well as any center or better. There's just one exception. It's the exception that matters to me.

Sky hook uber alles ya'll.

[_honorentheos]

Apparently during the 92 Dream Team practises there was a scrimmage game between a team captained by Magic v. a team captained by Jordan. Jordans team won but it's been described as the greatest game of basketball ever played.

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/07/ ... nobody-saw

[_EAllusion]

Apparently during the 92 Dream Team practises there was a scrimmage game between a team captained by Magic v. a team captained by Jordan. Jordans team won but it's been described as the greatest game of basketball ever played.

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/07/ ... nobody-saw

Who got saddled with Laettner?

[_ajax18]

This is a geeky sports question, but in thinking about who is the Greatest of All Time (GOAT) in the NBA, it is always hard to compare guards with centers. So my idea is a 5 on 5 clone game: Clone any player and have him play 5 on 5 against any other player in history. Who wins?

What this does is bring versatility into the equation. Shaquille O'Neil and Spud Webb wash out pretty early. How many different ways can you help a team? Can you guard a big man or a small man? Can you score over a small man and drive around a big man? How well can you perform at all 5 positions?

The other weird intangible: How well would they play together? Michael Jordan could be very unforgiving of mistakes. Is that always a plus when you have five Michael Jordans on the floor? Would Kobe Bryant ever pass to himself?

To my way of thinking, it is probably the tallest player who can still remain versatile. You want a smart, quick player with good footwork. So you think MJ and LeBron, maybe Kevin Durant. Tim Duncan should actually be an interesting choice. I still remember when Magic Johnson was a rookie guard, he scored 40 points playing CENTER (Kareem was out with a migraine) to win the championship against Julius Erving's 76'ers.

Put a gun to my head and I still say Michael Jordan wins. But please, be a contrarian and post your own candidate.

Assuming there were objective by the book officiating, a team of five Larry Birds would win every time. But it would be a complex team game full of accurate shooting, position team defense, box outs, and very few dunks. I doubt the current NBA fan base would want to watch it.

This thread makes me consider what it might be like to play basketball with a bunch of Democrats. I imagine people like Michael Moore clapping for the ball to fire up three point attempts with FG percentage no higher than 3%, rarely crossing half court and being for the most part unwilling to play any kind of defense.

[Guest]

Who got saddled with Laettner?

I misremembered. I went back and read the play by play in the article and Laettner was on Magic's squad along with Barkley, Chris Mullin and Robinson. Jordan had his go-to Pippen along with Ewing, Bird and Malone. Stockton and Drexler were hurt and resting through practise.

[_honorentheos]

Go home, Ajax.

[_Markk]

I won't disagree with any of the above. I just figured if he had to defend not putting Jordan on his team AND argue defense beats offense then the one position in your starting 5s I thought made a reasonable case is at starting center.

In all honesty it seems to me Markk has a bias against being a good basketball player v. being a hatchet man roleplayer. It suggests how he may play himself, all elbows and body checks...;) Since he keeps asking if you even lift bro, errr, play I mean.

Just giving you crap, Markk.

LOL...that’s part of the fun in playing Basketball, is talking smack. I played a lot and was a gym rat. I was a physical guard that usually had to play underneath because I was physical. I could score but a streak shooter, not a pure shooter. I pride myself a bit in that I could hang with the brothers, and play D...to a certain level anyways. We had some very good gym’s in the inland empire. The legend of my era was “Sir Jamelot”....his real name was Gerry Wright and he went on to play for USC and Iowa...but went into the service instead of the NBA...he is one of those what if’s...he played like Dominic...

There was some classic summer pic up at Loma Linda University gym with the likes of Gerry, Steve Johnson (Portland), and Reggie and Cheryl Miller, and other pros and future pros, staying in shape in the off seasons. I just watched those games...I played on the “C” courts, they were on the A+ When they came, and hacks like me weren't allowed to possibly hurt them.

I actually played against Wright’s CIF Championship high school team, less Gerry and another star they had, at of all places the cultural hall of our ward...and we beat them...but we were 10 years older and I think they were freaked out by playing so many clean cut white guys and me (long hair). If Gerry and the other guy would have been there they would have smoked us though, they were off playing college ball.

Steve Johnson played Jabbar maybe better than anyone in NBA history..he was a real journeyman pro. They had some classic matchups, and fights.

Every team needs a Green, Rambis, Carr, Mahorn, Rodman...and on the teams I played on a Markk.

What is funny, in city leagues there were fewer physical “ love taps” as compared to church basketbrawl.

[_Markk]

Hakeem and Jabbar are pretty close and overlap closely in skill-set. I like Jabbar more because Jabbar is a little faster and can generate quick, high % offense whereas Hakeem is more reliant on time-consuming post moves. I find the latter unacceptable when there is so much offensive talent on the floor to work with. I'd run close to zero traditional post offense ala modern NBA offenses. Jabbar is a significantly better passer and is one of the better passing big men of all time. I think this is at a premium in your front court when moving the ball around is going to be very important with so many gifted offensive players running around. On the offensive side, what I imagine Jabbar doing is presenting a high % threat 12-15 ft. in. If a mismatch is there for a close to automatic bucket, take it, but otherwise look away. Any pass to him should result in a quick dribble and very high % shot or a fast pass out. Otherwise, Jabbar has the body and speed to run complex screens fine.

[Again, we're talking prime Milwaukee Bucks Jabbar, not his late Lakers' years.]

Rebounding is similar once you control for era differences. Jabbar is slightly better at peak. Rebounding is the opposite of passing ability in that its value is much lower because fewer rebounding opportunities are going to be generated with so much efficient offense happening.

Hakeem is a better defender, but the difference is marginal and probably won't matter much. Hakeem is probably the second best defensive center of all time depending on how you view Russell and Jabbar is somewhere between 3 and 5. I'd probably put him at 4 behind Wilt Chamberlain, but slightly ahead of David Robinson. The gap between them is small enough that I don't care. For the above reasons, I'd sacrifice a little defensive difference for a better style of play.

All that said, I find Hakeem to be at least a defensible choice. It's close. Hakeem didn't use it because of the era he played in, but he showed a lot of potential ability to shoot. You could probably use him as a better version of what Embiid is today and get away with it. I'm still going with Kareem for the above reasons.

Markk's outright bad picks are players like Rodman and Thomas. Maybe he lived in Detroit in the 80's. Idk.

The real issue I see with Markk's team as far as Hakeem is concerned is that there are going to be times when having a prototypical center on the floor isn't the best strategy. Hakeem and Shaq double-up there. He didn't seem to plan to go smaller outside of Bobby Jones, but Bobby Jones isn't an ideal sub at that spot either. Overall, Markk seems to massively undervalue shooting ability and skill versatility at multiple positions. Because of this, his team is so much easier to gameplan.

LOL Shaq and Akeem prototype? Have you ever seen Shaq play in person, up close? He he demands a double team.

Akeem changed the way the position was played...you have no idea what you are talking about.

My team aside from those team is a small team...what are you talking about...if I have a weakness it is I am two small in a pack’em in half court game.

Go back and look at my starting line up? I don’t have a real seven footer in my starting line up. Akeem is 6’11 at best.

Here is the game plan, it is very easy as you wrote, against my starting line up...get ready to run and try to stop us.

Jabbar and Akeem are nowhere near the same...nobody is like Jabbar, and the GOAT in in my opinion. Akeem has wheels for a big man, and can put it on the floor, and play straight up defense, not post just post defense. He can put in on the floor like James Worthy with quickness and take it to the hole like James. Shaq said in his career, Akeem was the only player he never figured out defensively.

Rodman, seven time NBA rebound leader on great teams...and multiple defensive player of th eye are awards...I’ll take that every time for a team.

[_Markk]

I misremembered. I went back and read the play by play in the article and Laettner was on Magic's squad along with Barkley, Chris Mullin and Robinson. Jordan had his go-to Pippen along with Ewing, Bird and Malone. Stockton and Drexler were hurt and resting through practise.

Laettner was one of the greatest college players ever...but was his own worst enemy...he was on the Dan Patrick Show w few months ago...and talks about it a bit...interesting.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yS7La361Qoo