Kamala blasts Pence for refusing to meet women alone

[_EAllusion]

That's good because these personal decisions are none of your business and nobody who makes them - no matter what their decision is - need to explain it/them or justify it/them to you.

Whether you treat men and women differently in a professional context is other people’s business because that affects more than just you. You initially appeared hung up on describing something that meets the literal definition of discrimination as just that, but now you have leaped into not getting that your actions affect others. If you choose simply not to work with women at all, that would be a personal decision too, but one that says something about how women are treated by you.

Again, if you have a job where no opportunities exist to avoid women alone where you wouldn’t men, bully for you, but that is not feasible in a lot of professional contexts. Either way, you are either defending discrimination against women in a way that disadvantages them as class in the abstract or you are saying you personally do that. Calling it a personal decision doesn’t absolve you of blame for doing so. Freedom doesn’t mean freedom from others having a problem with your behavior.

[_Res Ipsa]

And there you have it. There is only one relevant question that can be raised or discussed: whether this white, male, evangelical Christian, who is second in line to head the executive branch in our government “of the people, by the people, and for the people, is “Can he do what he wants?”

So saith a fellow white, male, evangelical Christian.

And you have no right to criticize him on a message board.

So saith Ceeboo.

Come 2020 - Vote Republican and vote often.
America is at stake!

Typical right wing fear-mongering BS.

You really mean that my ability to criticize a governmental official on a message board threatens the very existence of America? Get a grip. You’re playing footsie with facism.

[_EAllusion]

Apparently “This America!” means the personal decisions of its leaders are above criticism and questioning them is an attack on freedom.

Yes, that’s definitely the foundation of American ideals.

[_Res Ipsa]

Apparently “This America!” means the personal decisions of its leaders are above criticism and questioning them is an attack on freedom.

Yes, that’s definitely the foundation of American ideals.

That’s a new rule since Obama was President, right?

[_Ceeboo]

Typical right wing fear-mongering ____.

You really mean that my ability to criticize a governmental official on a message board threatens the very existence of America?

Typical radical leftist ----.
No, I mean the only things you see (as evident by your above post) is the skin color of people, the gender of people and the religious beliefs of people. You obviously have disdain for particular genders, colors and religions. Which makes people who think like you an enormous danger to America's future. in my opinion

Get a grip. You’re playing footsie with facism.

Fascist.
Racist.
Homophobic.
Xenophobic.

Get an original thought.

[_EAllusion]

... though I might change 'US culture' to 'some parts of US culture'.

That's probably a good policy:



We wouldn't want the whole judged by a minority. Whatever the case may be, does your place of employment have a fraternization policy?

- Doc

A employer that doesn’t have its fraternization policy written and enforced in gender neutral terms is begging to be sued into oblivion, so we can be fairly confident that his place of employment doesn’t have the Pence rule as part of its code of conduct.

[_Chap]

Did I ask Mr Pence or anybody else to explain themselves? Nope. I said specifically that their reasons did not concern me. So we are together on that one. But that does not stop me saying that, based on my own experience of life and work in responsible positions, such decisions seem to me quite bizarre. And I don't think I'm alone there, even on this board.

Your belief that his personal choice is "quite bizarre" is irrelevant. Do you believe he has the freedom/right to make such a decision/choice for himself? That is what is relevant.

Is Ceeboo really in any doubt on my views, do you think?

We also tolerate weirdos quite well outside the US, you know. And, like Americans (correct me if I'm wrong) we also have the right to say they are weird.

Naw. It's just that he feels insecure if he runs into anybody who does not correspond to the limited number of straw men he knows how to handle.

Of course, the flip side of people being allowed to be weird is that I get the right to say that they are weird whenever I feel like it.

[_Chap]

Calling it a personal decision doesn’t absolve you of blame for doing so.

This 'personal decision' thing.

Can someone please explain to me what the difference is between a 'personal decision', and a plain old ordinary 'decision'? It can't just mean a decision that only affects the person who makes it (like a decision to eat less ice-cream in order to lose weight), since in the case under discussion Mr Pence is telling half the human race (excepting his wife) that no, he won't ever, ever, meet them one to one.

Actually, I think the word 'personal' is just a kind of fake 'keep off the grass' notice, intended to deflect discussion. Pence's decision is in fact a decision about how he will fulfil a public office in a country in which men and women have equal civil rights. To label it 'personal' as if it concerned nobody but himself is, to put it mildly, a slick rhetorical trick.

[_EAllusion]

So, to recap:

Ceeboo: I support male leaders never agreeing to meet with females alone, but being willing to meet males alone.

Also Ceeboo: How dare you say I support discrimination. Why I never. Hearing this criticism of me on a message board reminds me why Donald Trump needs to be President of the United States.

Ceeboo: Whether or not I treat men and women differently in a professional context is a personal decision that is my business and none of yours. It is a matter of personal freedom.

Also Ceeboo: People ought not to use their personal freedom to criticize me. Seeing this violated shows why Republicans must smash Democrats.

Ceeboo: It is inappropriate to criticize the Vice President of the United States for how he treats women. His reasons are his own and are not to be questioned. The only question is whether or not he legally can behave that way.

Also Ceeboo: How dare you compare my views to authoritarian political movements. This is unorginal namecalling. Trump!

[_Res Ipsa]

Typical right wing fear-mongering ____.

You really mean that my ability to criticize a governmental official on a message board threatens the very existence of America?

Typical radical leftist ----.

Is "radical leftist" your example of "original thought"? (see below)

Ceeboo, if you want to meet an actual "radical leftist" as opposed to "person who disagrees with Ceeboo," here are some easy to follow instructions. Go to any demonstration or protest by folks on the left side of the political spectrum. Look for the guys with the hammer and sickle flags. Those are the radical leftists. And if they ever grow into a viable political party, I'll join you in raising the alarm about a threat to America. Your attempt to lump me in with those guys is goofy.

Do you deny that the assertion that America will cease to exist if Democrats are elected is "right wing?" Like, Glenn Beck hysteria type right wing?

No, I mean the only things you see (as evident by your above post) is the skin color of people, the gender of people and the religious beliefs of people. You obviously have disdain for particular genders, colors and religions. Which makes people who think like you an enormous danger to America's future. in my opinion

Oh, so you think you can make those kinds of broad sweeping judgments about me personally based on a couple of sentences? YO isn't worth spit on the subject of what I see and what I don't see. What you seem to see is one guy, a guy who just happens to look and believe as you do. I see both the guy who looks like you and all the people that his actions may harm in some way. I'm not the one who claims that there is only one issue here -- that's you. In fact, I've never taken the position that Pence should be somehow forced to meet one on one with women. I haven't seen EA take that position either. So no one is contesting his "right" to make a choice. But, somehow, his "right" to make a choice is getting morphed into some kind of "right" not to be criticized. And I do have disdain for that notion.

Pence has no right to be free from criticism for his actions. He has no right to have people ignore his choice when deciding whether or not to vote for him. Do you disagree? And if you do, then why are you talking about the destruction of America? Just because I criticize a government official? Just like millions of people did when a Democrat held the presidency?

Get a grip. You’re playing footsie with facism.

Fascist.
Racist.
Homophobic.
Xenophobic.

Get an original thought.

Could you at least take a consistent position within a single post? Or is "radical leftist" your idea of "original thought?" By the way, when did "original thought" become a some sort of requirement for discussing a topic? I mean, if you really believed that, you'd never talk about that 2000 year old Bible, would you?