The Trump Criminal Case MEGATHREAD.

[Res Ipsa]

Politico has published an interesting piece that lays out, step by step, the evolution of the conspiracy to overturn the results of the 2020 Presidential election. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/0 ... r-00110458

ETA: The prosecution has moved to set the trial date in the election case for January 2, 2024. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 23.0_5.pdf

[Vēritās]

BREAKING: Donald Trump is rocked by bombshell news as a former Homeland Security official comes forward to reveal an overlooked part of Special Counsel Jack Smith's indictment so chilling that he says his "blood ran cold."

According to former Army officer Kevin Carroll — the man who served as senior counsel to Trump's Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly — we came dangerously close to Donald Trump using the U.S. military to murder American civilians.

He stated that Trump's advisers "would have put the U.S. military in the position of defying orders or turning their weapons on civilians.”

Carroll said that "as a veteran" he felt his blood run cold when reading two specific passage in Jack Smith's indictment.

In them, Smith details how Trump and his election-denying attorneys meticulously constructed an "autocratic plan to remain in power" aimed at forcing the U.S. military to "choose between subservience to civilian control or refusing to undertake an anti-democratic domestic political role."

Carroll pointed to Trump's Assistant Attorney General Jeffrey Clark remark that they had options to put down any riots that might spring up if Trump illegally remained in power by saying: "That’s why there’s an Insurrection Act."

Just as evil, Trump's outside counsel John Eastman addressed the possible riots by coldly observing that certain points in American history have necessitated violence.

We came VERY close to Trump abusing his powers as commander-in-chief to murder innocent people to keep himself in in the White House. Carroll explained further—

"The armed services were to be told to use force against Americans to keep Trump in office, despite the objective fact, as established in more than 60 judicial proceedings, that Biden won the 2020 election," explained Carroll explains. He added that it could have easily resulted in a "tragic loss of life."

"Generals would be forced to choose whether to abandon an unbroken tradition of American military obedience to civilian control, or turn their guns on civilians to facilitate a losing candidate remaining in the White House beyond Inauguration Day," Carroll added.

Most damningly for Trump, Carroll concluded that the "potential harm" of the then-president's plans to use the military should "should be taken into account in the former president’s sentencing" in his 2020 election criminal case.

Carroll is absolutely right. The fact that we are even debating whether or not Donald Trump — man who tried to destroy our democracy and install himself as king — should go to prison is an indictment of us all.

Trump deserves prison above all else.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kevin-ca ... 7e50453573

[Moksha]

"The armed services were to be told to use force against Americans to keep Trump in office, despite the objective fact, as established in more than 60 judicial proceedings, that Biden won the 2020 election," explained Carroll explains. He added that it could have easily resulted in a "tragic loss of life."

Just a guess, but I think the military would have been split, with 60% going for a Trump dictatorship. If following South American history, eventually the military would overthrow Trump due to his daily tantrums and irrationality.

[Doctor Steuss]

"The armed services were to be told to use force against Americans to keep Trump in office, despite the objective fact, as established in more than 60 judicial proceedings, that Biden won the 2020 election," explained Carroll explains. He added that it could have easily resulted in a "tragic loss of life."

Just a guess, but I think the military would have been split, with 60% going for a Trump dictatorship. If following South American history, eventually the military would overthrow Trump due to his daily tantrums and irrationality.

In polls, only about 37% of active duty military members indicated they were going to vote for Trump leading up to the election. Of those 37%, I imagine many (just like Biden voters) weren't planning on doing so enthusiastically.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

"The armed services were to be told to use force against Americans to keep Trump in office, despite the objective fact, as established in more than 60 judicial proceedings, that Biden won the 2020 election," explained Carroll explains. He added that it could have easily resulted in a "tragic loss of life."

Just a guess, but I think the military would have been split, with 60% going for a Trump dictatorship. If following South American history, eventually the military would overthrow Trump due to his daily tantrums and irrationality.

Well. Not to be a contrarian for the sake of contrarianism, but no. Maybe a few active Generals and retired assholes like Flynn; and maybe, 10% active duty (National Guard and Active Reserve, I don't know). You'd be pleasantly surprised how many servicemembers take their oaths seriously and understand we're allegiant not to a President, but to the country.

If the country were to descend into an armed civil war I'd fight for the Union. Period.

- Doc

edit - I should add that, imho, the chance of the above happening, civil war, is 0%. Bubbas and fat Mormon Bishops aside, it's all blather.

[Moksha]

[qWell. Not to be a contrarian for the sake of contrarianism, but no. Maybe a few active Generals and retired assholes like Flynn; and maybe, 10% active duty (National Guard and Active Reserve, I don't know). You'd be pleasantly surprised how many servicemembers take their oaths seriously and understand we're allegiant not to a President, but to the country.

If the country were to descend into an armed civil war I'd fight for the Union. Period.

- Doc

edit - I should add that, imho, the chance of the above happening, civil war, is 0%. Bubbas and fat Mormon Bishops aside, it's all blather.

What you and Steuss had to say is comforting. Supporting the United States rather than an anomalous dictator seems the best choice.

[Moksha]

Georgia prosecutors have messages showing Trump’s team is behind voting system breach.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/13/politics ... index.html

[honorentheos]

Just a guess, but I think the military would have been split, with 60% going for a Trump dictatorship. If following South American history, eventually the military would overthrow Trump due to his daily tantrums and irrationality.

Well. Not to be a contrarian for the sake of contrarianism, but no. Maybe a few active Generals and retired assholes like Flynn; and maybe, 10% active duty (National Guard and Active Reserve, I don't know). You'd be pleasantly surprised how many servicemembers take their oaths seriously and understand we're allegiant not to a President, but to the country.

If the country were to descend into an armed civil war I'd fight for the Union. Period.

- Doc

edit - I should add that, imho, the chance of the above happening, civil war, is 0%. Bubbas and fat Mormon Bishops aside, it's all blather.

The Spanish Civil War was an interesting example of how a military might split at such times. The divides were as much along socio-economic lines as anything else, and the early fighting often involves units fighting one another within larger units. The navy and army split quite differently, and units in foreign campaigns differently from domestic garrisons.

I'd agree in general that the soldiers would stand for the Constitution and there is a culture in the military civilians don't recognize that stands as a buffer against rote obedience of orders. Firing on American citizens on American soil protesting an attempt to overturn an election seems unconscionable. But you never know. In 2003 I was in college and in a reserve unit where I was an outlier in my unit believing that the evidence for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq did not rise to the level justifying unilateral waging of war. But I also answered when the reserve unit I was in at the time was activated. Duty is duty.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Georgia:

[MsJack]

Happy Indictment Day to all who observe.