The War on Terror

[_Jersey Girl]

Okay...good hell. Anyway...here is something I wrote just after the bombing of Baghdad. What inspired the rant you're going to see here is that people on a board seemed so critical of the US Armed Forces and it pissed off the living hell out of me. I will tell you why it pissed me off if someone wants to know...other than that...here was my rant:

I have to say right up front that I'm thoroughly disgusted with many or most of the comments on this thread. In my OP I asked why there seemed to be a lack of pride and appreciation for the US military expressed on this board and asked why.

I understand the existent opposition to this war. I understand the disappointment with the breakdown of diplomacy. I completely disagree that Bush is responsible for said break down. I disagree further, that the UN has no responsibility in this matter. I place the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of Saddam Hussein and the UN who would not enforce it's own decisions for 12 YEARS.

Having said that, the intention of this thread was not to debate further the causes and responsibilities of this war. It was to focus on the monumental sacrifice and effort of the US armed forces. Young men and women who made a decision to defend YOUR freedom. Who dedicated themselves to training, to proficiency, to excellence and who now pepper the soil of Iraq in a display of courage, precision and might having left the comfort of their own homes and left their own spouses and children in favor of harms way, while we sit in our homes surrounded by our loved ones and passively watch their efforts and sacrifice unfold before our eyes on television.

HOW can you sit in your homes and watch them on television and not be proud? HOW can you get up in the morning and partake of a warm clean shower, get dressed in the clothes you bought last weekend at the mall, get in a running car tomorrow and leave your house to go to the job you snagged because of your earned university degree or vocational training, deposit your earned income in a bank, go to lunch at the nearest fast food joint, put your kids on the public school bus, stop by a grocery store to pick up stuff for your dinner and come back to the comfort of your secure home and WEIGH that against the ATROCITIES committed against the Iraqi people by THEIR OWN leader (who don't have clean drinking water because their leader spit in the face of UN decisions and chose to let his own people suffer on account of that) and watch our armed forces work to END THEIR SUFFERING....and not be proud?

For those who worry about the devistation of Iraq. What are you talking about? Nearly every missle that has been dropped on Iraq at this writing has been a system GUIDED missle STRAGETICALLY aimed at positions of GOVERNMENT--not the Iraqi citizenry! The strikes you see are not random they are SURGICAL. Do you criticize the US military for doing EXACTLY what they said they would do? I say, aim your arrows at Saddam Hussein who parked his bloody missles and bombs in civilian neighborhoods to USE HIS PEOPLE AS HUMAN SHIELDS. Are there any truck mounted bombs in YOUR neighborhoods???

May I offer the following quote attributed to (though not confirmed) to George Orwell:

"We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us"


In disgust,
(Jersey Girl)

[_barrelomonkeys]

Okay...good hell. Anyway...here is something I wrote just after the bombing of Baghdad. What inspired the rant you're going to see here is that people on a board seemed so critical of the US Armed Forces and it pissed off the living hell out of me. I will tell you why it pissed me off if someone wants to know...other than that...here was my rant:

I have to say right up front that I'm thoroughly disgusted with many or most of the comments on this thread. In my OP I asked why there seemed to be a lack of pride and appreciation for the US military expressed on this board and asked why.

I understand the existent opposition to this war. I understand the disappointment with the breakdown of diplomacy. I completely disagree that Bush is responsible for said break down. I disagree further, that the UN has no responsibility in this matter. I place the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of Saddam Hussein and the UN who would not enforce it's own decisions for 12 YEARS.

Having said that, the intention of this thread was not to debate further the causes and responsibilities of this war. It was to focus on the monumental sacrifice and effort of the US armed forces. Young men and women who made a decision to defend YOUR freedom. Who dedicated themselves to training, to proficiency, to excellence and who now pepper the soil of Iraq in a display of courage, precision and might having left the comfort of their own homes and left their own spouses and children in favor of harms way, while we sit in our homes surrounded by our loved ones and passively watch their efforts and sacrifice unfold before our eyes on television.

HOW can you sit in your homes and watch them on television and not be proud? HOW can you get up in the morning and partake of a warm clean shower, get dressed in the clothes you bought last weekend at the mall, get in a running car tomorrow and leave your house to go to the job you snagged because of your earned university degree or vocational training, deposit your earned income in a bank, go to lunch at the nearest fast food joint, put your kids on the public school bus, stop by a grocery store to pick up stuff for your dinner and come back to the comfort of your secure home and WEIGH that against the ATROCITIES committed against the Iraqi people by THEIR OWN leader (who don't have clean drinking water because their leader spit in the face of UN decisions and chose to let his own people suffer on account of that) and watch our armed forces work to END THEIR SUFFERING....and not be proud?
For those who worry about the devistation of Iraq. What are you talking about? Nearly every missle that has been dropped on Iraq at this writing has been a system GUIDED missle STRAGETICALLY aimed at positions of GOVERNMENT--not the Iraqi citizenry! The strikes you see are not random they are SURGICAL. Do you criticize the US military for doing EXACTLY what they said they would do? I say, aim your arrows at Saddam Hussein who parked his bloody missles and bombs in civilian neighborhoods to USE HIS PEOPLE AS HUMAN SHIELDS. Are there any truck mounted bombs in YOUR neighborhoods???

May I offer the following quote attributed to (though not confirmed) to George Orwell:

"We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us"


In disgust,
(Jersey Girl)

Jersey. That was very stirring. I remember feeling the same way. Pride mixed with intense anxiety. Knowing that what they were doing, and their bravery, was something I could never comprehend. Being in awe of their tremendous discipline and service to our nation.

I am still extremely proud of our military. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a28OGLKL ... ed&search=

[_Jersey Girl]

monkeys,

I was so righteously pissed off when I wrote that old post. Just reading it again made me sick to my stomach and I'm not kidding. My guts were in that post. You wanted to see me going apeshit? Well, there ya go!

Jersey Girl

[_barrelomonkeys]

monkeys,

I was so righteously pissed off when I wrote that old post. Just reading it again made me sick to my stomach and I'm not kidding. My guts were in that post. You wanted to see me going apeshit? Well, there ya go!

Jersey Girl

Well that was a pretty good ape crap. Hooah!

[_Jersey Girl]

monkeys,

I was so righteously pissed off when I wrote that old post. Just reading it again made me sick to my stomach and I'm not kidding. My guts were in that post. You wanted to see me going apeshit? Well, there ya go!

Jersey Girl

Well that was a pretty good ape crap. Hooah!

In the language of my tribe....fuckin' A!

[_JAK]

JAK wrote:
Incorrect. The “goals” for “victory” are ever-changing. First, it was to remove weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

Mr. Coffee:
Are you damned simple or did you not see where I said "Do what is necessary" to win? That means "If they look at us funny after we ask nicely, kill them all".

“Kill them all”? An absurd even insane view. It would not be possible.
------------
JAK wrote:
Since there were no WMDs, it was necessary to have a different and new goal. --Remove Saddam Hussein

Mr. Coffee:
It was politically expedient to do so. Nothing more. Don't damned atrribute more to the reasoning than is necessary.

Since the death of Saddam, things have deteriorated even further. It was stupid.

JAK wrote:
After a lengthy expenditure of American wealth and human life,

Mr. Coffee:
And hear we have the true reason why the US will FAIL any mission to kill its enemies or influence the politics of other nations...

Because some simplering bitch says "To much money" or "To many lives (not our own soldiers) killed)".

People who think this way need to either shut the “F” up or earn the right to stand the line and serve before they say a goddamned word.

JAK wrote:
Saddam was found and subsequently executed.

The US is but one country in a world of countries. Attempting “to kill” everyone with whom we have major difference is certain political/national suicide. It cannot be done.

Mr. Coffee:
Yeah, with a giant asshole monkey-assed trail. He should have been summerly executed by a commander in the field to save time.

And do you think that would have endeared the US to the global community? Realize that most remaining as Iraqis in Iraq regard that life was better under Saddam than presently under US invasion. And make no mistake, the US is an invader and occupies Iraq.

How would the US respond if it were invaded by a military force as Iraq has been? Granted that could not happen. However, how would we react to being taken over as Iraq has been? We would like it no more than they like it. We, like they, would want the invading country out.

JAK Quote:
But the mission once again shifts. Failure to capture, let alone kill Osama bin Laden led to yet another mission (mission impossible).

Mr. Coffee:
Yes, because killing one man will dramatically or even noticably reduce attacks.

Probably not. Who is doing the attacking? Keep in mind that it was the US that attacked Iraq. And it did so on false pretense. There were no WMDs. Hence, the whole case for the invasion was a fraud. Most of the world knows this. Some with blinders prefer ignorance.

Mr. Coffee:
ARE YOU damned HIGH, SON?

No

Mr. Coffee:
I ask this, because you are actually stupid enough to believe that kjilling or capturing one man will have a net effect on ANYTHING.

You contradict yourself. Just above you argued that: “Yes, because killing one man will dramatically or even noticeably reduce attacks.”

Now you argue that it would nave no effect. Which way do you want to argue? --

Mr. Coffee:
The net effect is achieved by KILLING everyone, from the youngest man to the eldest woman that has jack and crap, up to an including just having the bad luck to be around that day, when we dropp a few thousand pounds of bombs on the objective.

Ah. Kill “everyone.” And do you favor nuclear bombs? If not, why not? More people could be killed, maimed, and lives destroyed with nuclear bombs. Don’t you think (not that you think) that nuclear bombs would be best to kill more people?

Mr. Coffee:
We are fighting an enemy that has declared TOTAL WAR on us. it's about goddamned time we sahowed them what that term means.

Nonsense -- Bush propaganda. We started the war. Iraq had nothing to do with any war on the US. I understand that still about 25% of Americans believe the Bush lies on that. But abroad, the Western World knows it was a lie.

Your thinking is as poor as your spelling, Mr. Coffee.

JAK Quote:
The constantly changing mission expanded and extended the war. On what the war is being waged is nebulous. Bush calls it “war on terror.” However, Guantanimo and the fact that the US invaded for a false cause makes most of the world question just who is the terrorist or who are the terrorists.


So according to you, just because they said we should remofe spider webs because all spiders are evil, then we should do nothing...

Shut the “F” up, boy.

You kill your enemy. You kill him by whatever means is available. All elses is a secondary consideration.

Well, then, you surely favor the hydrogen bomb. If we drop a hundred of those, not only will we kill all our enemies, we will kill our friends and ourselves. Do you know what a nuclear winter is? We, the US, have the power to make the earth uninhabitable for all human life. We could make the human species extinct. Nuclear bombs would do it.

How much do you know about science?

JAK Quote:
While it’s not possible in fact, just imagine that a country many more times powerful than the United States


Mr. Coffee:
And I can imagine what it'sike to fart broken glass. But since that's not something that will actually be a reality, I don't bother damned modeling it.

Here's a clue, idiot, model and worry about things that have an actual net effect on nations instead of worrying about possible political outcomes that are meaningless.

Sorry, wrong again. Political outcomes are critical to influence. Absent positive influence, the US incurs the condemnation of the global community. The US cannot afford that. And, contrary to your perspective, we cannot “kill” everyone we don’t like.

Making war on false pretext is a poor way to exert influence. It fails and it failed in Iraq. It costs us the US (currently) $2,000,000,000 a month to carry on the war.

We cannot afford it. Bush has created a national debt larger than ALL the Presidents combined since 1776. In just 5-6 years, Bush has done that.

I don’t think you’re “high,” only poorly informed and short on vocabulary skills.

JAK wrote:
invaded the United States with some major alteration of the United States. Imagining that, how do you expect the United States would react?

Mr. Coffee:
Because imagining a situation that has ZERO chance of happening produces what besides net dumbass gains?

It might help you to understand the perspective of others. How would you feel if another country invaded the US? I don’t think you would like it. You would want to fight them. You would not turn over and say: Come on in to our country and remodel us.

The illustration was to have you gain some perspective on how unimaginable the harm has been to Iraq, its people, and its way of life.

JAK wrote:
Of course we worry about US soldiers who have post-traumatic-stress syndrome..

Mr. Coffee:
yeah, sorry enough for them having it, but not sorry enough to force your senator or congressman to vote for actually aiding them.

JAK, don't damned talk to me about helping those men if you are not or have not done anything to measuably help them.

I AM one of them and to see some worthless CIVILIAN use those men's memories or service as a way to pad out his bid for political office is grounds for justifiable hoimicide where I come fome. If you don't actually help them, then don't you dare use them as a way to bolster your own damned campaign, shitbird.

Misuse my brothers at your own goddamned peril.

You beg the question of the lies on which the Iraq invasion was made. And the worth of citizens of Iraq is not in question. They have worth -- as much worth as you or I have.

And politicians will use the war and the idiotic, ignorant misconduct of the Bush administration. And they should. Where you come from is quite irrelevant. But global politics and a sense of moral conduct is relevant.

JAK wrote:
A sad reality: an incompetent, uninformed, misguided President of the United States began a war which now costs US citizens two billion dollars a month to continue.

Mr. Coffee:
Here we go again...

The President is evil, therefore lets “F” over the poor sons of bitches that are charged with fighting his war!

Moron.

The President is ignorant. We Americans voted him into office (2004), the Supreme Court put him in office in 2000. The President has surrounded himself with right-wing ideologues and faith-based conclusions which were not fact-based.

The Iraq war was not going to cost more than fifty billion. It now tops a trillion. It would not take but “six weeks to six months” --Donald Rumsfeld (now departed). So they lied or were so misinformed as to be utterly incompetent. Either choice does not alter the harm to America, Americans, and future Americans.

JAK wrote:
Your answer is misguided. We cannot “easily win.”

Mr. Coffee:
Spoken like a true pussy that did not listen toa word I said.

We can win easilly. It all depends on the willingness we have as a people to win.

And judgiung by weak dick pussies like yourself, we're doomed as a goddamned race.

No, there is no “win” here. There is only get out and a question of when. There is little willingness of Americans to continue the stay the course Bush doctrine (or yours). Most Americans, at long last, see the stupidity of the Bush policies globally. There are, to be sure, a few idiots as stupid as Bush, but not many.

We might be “doomed” as a race. But we have doomed ourselves by our conduct and our choice of politicos who make policy.

JAK wrote:
“We could easily win” says Mr. Coffee. Win what??

Mr. Coffee:
Define win, you dishonest piece of crap.

If by "win" you mean that there is NO ONE left alive to stand against us or that anyone who is able to do so is so damned scared that they fail to stands against us...

Then we won.

otherwise, define what the “F” the word "win" means, asshole.

It was you who said we could “easily win.” I disputed that
Winning a peace is far beyond the capacity of the Bush administration -- most of which is now gone. Only Dick Cheney and C. Rice remain of the original administration. Some may be headed for jail.

The Iraq war was ill conceived, poorly planned, and even more poorly executed. Its cost in life and treasure will be many years as the toll is counted.

JAK

[_Mr. Coffee]

Nice post tiles, jackass. Coming from a worthless asshole that has never BTDT's, I guess my being "misinformed" is preferable to your "in an entiorely diferent damned universe".

JKill them all”? An absurd even insane view. It would not be possible.

Insane how? We're fighting an enemy that sees victory as an absolute. Instead of being a nation of pussies, perhaps we should adopt the mannert of warfare that our enemies offer us.

Then we might actually win. Oh, I forgot, you're one of those ashsoles that thinks "winning" is the same as "insane".

If you're going to fight a war, don't “F” around about it. Kill the enemy and win by any means available and/or necessary in order to end the conflict as soon as possible.

Since the death of Saddam, things have deteriorated even further. It was stupid.

Nice strawman, fuckwit. When did I say a fuckign word about the execution of Saddam Hussien, and what the “F” does that have to do with the price of beans in Spain as I was talking about the concept of waging total war against an enemy and not about political show trails/executions?

Sweet Zombie Jesus, no wonderr no one takes you seriously...

Saddam was found and subsequently executed.

Plain English Translation: "I'm a damned idiot and can't actually argue the topic, so instead I'll make retarded asshole strawmen arguments to hide the fac that I'm a complete damned idiot on the topic at hand!"

And do you think that would have endeared the US to the global community?

Did I ever mention anything that ever remotely resembled me caring what the rest of the world thought of my nation or it's actions other than them having a very healthy sense of fear out of what we might do to them if they “F” with us?

No, I didn't, shit-for-brains.

Realize that most remaining as Iraqis in Iraq regard that life was better under Saddam than presently under US invasion. And make no mistake, the US is an invader and occupies Iraq.

Ok, fuckhead... Show me where I said "Iraq=Good". Quite making retarded asshole strawmen and stay on topic, you damned simpering shitbag.

How would the US respond if it were invaded by a military force as Iraq has been? Granted that could not happen.

Then why damned even waste time with asking about it, dumbass? I could make hypotheticals about the moon being made of cheese and that would have jack and crap to do with the reality of the situation or how to best solve the problem.

Probably not. Who is doing the attacking?

Assholes that are our enemy. Next stupid question?

Keep in mind that it was the US that attacked Iraq. And it did so on false pretense. There were no WMDs. Hence, the whole case for the invasion was a fraud. Most of the world knows this. Some with blinders prefer ignorance.[/color]

Okj, I'll ask this again, you strawmanderting fuckwit... What in the hell did any of that bullfuckery have to do with the topic at hand? Oh, that's right, not a goddamned thing.

JAK, you';re a damned idiot. Find a speeding bus and go earn your damned Darwin already.

[color=brown]You contradict yourself. Just above you argued that: “Yes, because killing one man will dramatically or even noticeably reduce attacks.”

I guess in Bizzarto World things like CONTEXT and SARCASM don't exist, amirite!

English, idiot! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!

Moron.

Now you argue that it would nave no effect. Which way do you want to argue?

I'd start be using the above post of yours as a sound case for you being a dishonest shithead or an ignorant fuckhead. Take your pick, dumbass.

And do you favor nuclear bombs?

Yes, I do. I am in favor of anything that maximizes enemy casualty rates, thereby shorterning the conflict.

Don’t you think (not that you think) that nuclear bombs would be best to kill more people?

No. But they are outstanding at oibliterating important strategic targets.

Killing the enemy's population is just an added bonusthat enhances the effects of the weapon and brings the enmy to their knees that much more rapidly.

nonsense -- Bush propaganda. We started the war. Iraq had nothing to do with any war on the US.

Ok, I'll say this in a manner thatr I hope a worthless asshole like yourself can understrand...

WHAT THE “F”, IF ANYTHING, DOES IRAQ HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT I"VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT? IF ANYTHING, IRAQ IS AN EXAMPLE FOR WHY WE SHOULD CONDUCT WAR IN THE METHODS I PROPOSE, FUCKWIT!

Well, then, you surely favor the hydrogen bomb. If we drop a hundred of those, not only will we kill all our enemies, we will kill our friends and ourselves.

Wow, so not only are you a distortionistic fuckhead, you're also completely damned ignorant on nuclear weapons or their effectsa too!

What is this, two-for-one day at the retard home?

Do you know what a nuclear winter is?

Yes. it's a complete damned fabrication perpetuated by fear-mongering retards who don't have the first damned clue about nuclear weapons or their effects.

We, the US, have the power to make the earth uninhabitable for all human life. We could make the human species extinct. Nuclear bombs would do it.

Ok, I'll call you on your BS.

Show me solid evidence that the US, much less every nuclear armed nation on earth, has the combined weapons output to destroy all human life.

Bitch, the combine aresenals of ever nuclear armed nation in the world isn't even 5 GIGATONS. That's orders of magnitude less that is needed to cause an extiction level event even if we piled ever damned deivce we had as a species up in one place and initiated them all at the same fuckign time.

Sorry, wrong again. Political outcomes are critical to influence. Absent positive influence, the US incurs the condemnation of the global community. The US cannot afford that. And, contrary to your perspective, we cannot “kill” everyone we don’t like.

One, when, historically, has the US ever cared about public opinion except when it suits our interests?

Two, give me one good reason and a list of nations willing to stop us if we decided to destroy our enemies wholesale? The Russians? Please... The EU? Don't even damned kid me. The peoples Republic of China? crap, thsoe commie "F"s need us more than we need them.

So, what's to stop us other than ourselves?

And politicians will use the war and the idiotic, ignorant misconduct of the Bush administration. And they should. Where you come from is quite irrelevant. But global politics and a sense of moral conduct is relevant.

So instead of arguing the topic you're going to turn this into a thread about why you hate the Bush Admin and the Blair Admin?

Moron.

It was you who said we could “easily win.” I disputed that

yes, you did that by bringing up an ill thought out war that only serves to demonstrate why my concept of TOTAL WAR and that we should even go to war unless we are fully commited to killing our enemy is a good idea.


Thanks for playing...

Now go find an interstate and play in traffic.

[_Dr. Shades]

Bond, I owe you an appology. I jumped your crap for no damned reason and I hope you can fdorgive me for it. I was pised off today at something that wasn;t your fault and I took it out on you. I'm sorry, brother.

Thank you for that, Mr. Coffee.

My hat is off to anyone who is willing and able to make a public apology like this.

[_The Nehor]

I think I'll just walk quietly away from this thread before someone gets murdered. Bye.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Bond, I owe you an appology. I jumped your crap for no damned reason and I hope you can fdorgive me for it. I was pised off today at something that wasn;t your fault and I took it out on you. I'm sorry, brother.


That is all.

Accepted.