Q for Shades about 911 conspiracy

[_Who Knows]

SatanWasSetUp, have you watched this video?

Did you check this site: Screw Loose Change?

[_SatanWasSetUp]

SatanWasSetUp, have you watched this video?

I watched the video. It actually upsets me, not that our government planned it, but that someone can make a slick piece of propoganda with ominous voice overs and eerie music and otherwise smart people buy into it. You're a smart guy Shades. I respect you. But I have disagree with you on this. I also watched the youtube videos which had the Loose Change guys debating a couple guys from Popular Mechanics and it became more clear that the Loose change guys have some Loose Screws. Everytime the Popular Mechanics guys would shoot down one of their theories with cold facts the Loose Change guys would yell "Liar." That was their favorite rebuttal to facts, by calling them liars. Sorry, but the Loose Change video is not convincing, maybe because I've heard most of their theories and also the scientific rebuttals.

[_richardMdBorn]

Here's my problems with the attack, the people "involved", and its aftermath.

A. 12 of the 19 hijackers are still alive.

Please explain this statement. Are you saying that there were not 19 hijackers on 9-11? The flight attendants on AA Flight 11 called and gave the seat assignments of at least four of these hijackers. Do you think that they were lying? It's possible that some of the hijackers got IDs under false names. That does not mean that they survived the crashes. Do you think that a total of seven hijackers took over four different planes?

[_Doctor Steuss]

I suggest that people watch

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action= ... eId=240087

The next time it is aired.

I enjoyed that one. There were a few of the aspects (such as the hole in the inner layer of the Pentagon) that I wish they would have gone into the physics behind it a bit more, but overall I thought it was good.

[_Legend]

If Bin Laden could have brought the buildings down with just explosives, why the additional headache just to add shock value by throwing planes at it? If his men were so good, that they can rig a building and bring it down such that most scientists couldn't figure out how they did it, what are they waiting for? Where's the next high-tech bombing? And why, go to the additional risk of getting caught for a very, very little additional payoff, of rigging building 7? There's no way it could have been bin laden.

How about the US government? Bush's controllers need an excuse to go to war. They want to make sure the job is done right. At most, why not just let the planes do their job? Would there have been that much less anger from the American people? And then, what if the job failed? Wouldn't there be increased building security, investigations of the buildings, and a chance of discovering explosives of sophistication that couldn't be pinned on Bin Laden? Were parts of the pentagon also rigged with explosives? Would a success against the pentagon have also not out-weighed the benefit of letting the towers go?

The most likely candidate to me would be the building owners themselves. Knowing the buildings were "big targets" for either a plane or another bombing attempt, they rigged all of them years in advance, as a back up plan to maximize insurance recovery. But why not wait a little longer, until more people could get out? They seemed to have waited for building 7.

Absolutely! Watch this : http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Here's a great source for scientific analysis of 9/11.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... 27842.html

[_dartagnan]

It worries me when I see so many intelligent people fall for this conspiracy crap.

A buddy of mine is fanatical about this, always trying to drag me in his room to show me youtube movies about how George Bush planned the entire thing. I told him about teh popular mechanics refutation and he immediately shot back with yet another conspiracy, by telling me that the author of that article was a brother-in-law to some big head at the Department of Homeland Security, so clearly we can't trust anything he says.

Give us a break people. If you guys truly have "physics" on yoru side, then why is it you've only managed to garner support from a few loose screws in academia, while the vast majority refute your nonsense? Are they all being paid by the DofHS as well?

And do we really believe in the greatest oxymoron in human history: "military intelligence"?

This administration can't cover up anything. I'm supposed to believe they managed to convince thousands of people (who had to have been in on it) to accomplish this massive cover up, yet to this day none of them have stepped forward with their guilty conscience? That has to be a first time in human history. George Bush must have to be the devil incarnate and everyone else involved, demons. Period. We have to be dealing with the most evil people the world has known. It makes no sense.

I mean we are talking about an administration that can't even keep a lid on Abu Grahb. Where are all the evil men in black who threatened to kill anyone who spoke about it? The media finds out just about everything these idiots do wrong. The government cannot even manage to torture a terrorist without some journalist blowing a whistle on it. Yet, thousands of people were working on a plan to kill thousands of American citizens, and nobody can seem to get a line into that circle of conspirators?

Think people. It just makes no sense.

And I get a kick out of the way they insist they have "proven facts" based on crappy film footage and photos.

This article here is pretty detailed and it refute most of the conspiratorial crap out there. It is also written by an atheist:


http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11.html

[_richardMdBorn]

What do our conspiracy friends think about this site:

http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html

[_SatanWasSetUp]

And do we really believe in the greatest oxymoron in human history: "military intelligence"?

Good points, dartagnan. This would be one of the most well orchestrated, government conspiracies and cover-ups in history, and we're supposed to believe it was pulled off by George W. Bush? The well oiled conspircay machine described in Loose Change makes now sense to me. Look at how our government really responded on 9/11.

Norad scrambled fighters in the wrong direction over the Atlantic ocean. Fighter jets took off unarmed, air traffic control towers were confused and chaotic. Delta flight 1989 was confused for United Flight 93. When Norad asked for authority to shoot down flight 93, they were told they had to get authority from the President, but nobody could reach him. CNN reported the first plane hitting the WTC while air traffic controllers and Norad were still trying to find Flight 11. When the second plane hit, they thought it was flight 11. The government agencies were behind the news media in gathering information.

This is the United States Government I know and love.

[_dartagnan]

==The airplane wreckage at the Pentagon magically disappeared into thin air.

No it didn't. The men in black scurried it all away under everyone's nose. Come on shades.

== If a plane--as opposed to a missile--smashed into the Pentagon, where was the wreckage?

Well not scattered all over the front lawn obviously. Did the producer of Loose Change, who was arrested for desertion from the military, have a front row seat to the event?

== The towers magically went into free-fall.

There was nothing magical about it. After the heat generated by the burning fuel caused the steel beams to lose 80% of their integrity, that was all she wrote. It is simple physics.

==They survived the impact and the jet fuel ignition, but not the fire afterward? That makes the only two times in human history that steel reinforced towers have fallen to the ground, especially into their own footprints, due only to fire.

Shades, again, you're misinformed. I'm surprised you automatically assume this video is credible.

== Building 7 magically went into free fall after being neither struck by airplanes nor being on fire

Shades, are you serious? The building was totally on fire and witnesses saw that a huge chuck on the building was missing and on fire. Nobody who saw the building had any doubts it would be coming down soon.

== Sensitive--some say incriminating--FBI documents just happened to be stored inside. Neat coincidence, eh?

Shades, don't believe what these idiots say. "Loose Change," which is your primary source for information, also claims that in 1945, a freaking B-52 bomber (largest bomber in the world) crashed into the Empire State Building. Little did they know the B-52 didn't even exist then. What had actually crashed into the ESB was a B-25, which is only about 50 feet long.