Biden's Economy?

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Hawkeye
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Hawkeye »

The problem is that you stubbornly cling to the claim that reducing fossil fuel production requires higher gas prices. It doesn’t. There are two sides to the equation: supply and demand. You keep ignoring the demand side of the equation. Subsidizing the changeover to electric cars reduces the demand gas, so the price of gas falls.
Are you saying that Democrats plan to provide electric car purchase vouchers to their constituents? Do you think the price of gas will rise or fall after the November 2022 elections Res Ipsa?
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
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canpakes
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by canpakes »

Hawkeye wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:12 pm
I’m hearing you say that voters will vote for Biden if he puts them through more pain than not. Interesting theory.

Then you have misinterpreted what I'm saying. I'm saying that if Biden gets gas down enough, he'll get more votes.
You’ve stated that Biden has forced gas prices up. That the increases are his fault, more or less. Your clarification above only makes sense if you abandon those earlier assertions. Otherwise, what you’ve said comes down to (1) Biden making gas prices go up, then (2) bringing them down enough to make more people vote for him.

If Biden caused gas to go up more than he made the price decline afterwards, then Biden voters end up supporting him for putting them through more economic pain than not. Even if the price comes back down to the same level as before the increase, voters will have paid more during the time of higher prices … which represented economic pain.

Is that how you see it?

You’ve mentioned the EPA again. When you make these types of claims, I ask you to point out what the EPA has done under Biden that is having a deleterious effect on … anything. You never seem up for answering that question. How about today?
I've pointed this out many times. Biden's pledge to end fossil fuels has spooked investors. You can't get people to invest money into drilling or fracking oil when you plan to outlaw it in a few years. That means high gas prices for the Democrat masses. There aren't enough liberal economic elites to win an election on $5/gallon gasoline.

As Binger would say, you’ve inserted a few presuppositions in there. To start, no one - not Biden, especially - has proposed that fracking be completely banned. Fracking is responsible for a huge amount of current US production. What Biden proposed was no new fracking on new leases issued for Fed land and had no effect on existing leases, or on private land.

Consider, also, that your statement implies a serious problem. If you suggest that US production will be terribly adversely affected by not being able to continually issue fresh permits on new Fed land leases, then you’re implying that our supply isn’t keeping up with demand. That should tell you that we have serious energy supply issues down the road and need to look at other ways to avoid your impending shortages. In other words, that ‘drilling ourselves out of the problem’ isn’t going to be realized, and a total dependency on gas may not be smart or manageable.

But current fuel prices aren’t driven by investors, anyway. Current pricing is driven by brokers, traders, and current supply. To imply that the big money won’t invest into Big Oil because of anything that Biden has to say about fracking is ignoring the reality of what has actually/always driven pricing at the pump. And to assume that producers and refiners don’t have plans lined up for a future that may see less extraction is to accuse the entire industry of being incredibly short-sighted and devoid of vision.
Vēritās
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Vēritās »

ajax/hawkeye keep repeating this lie that Biden promised to "end" this and to "end" that regarding fossil fuels. It is what he does, parroting the lies from fake news sites like Brietbart and FOX.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... sil-fuels/

He also refuses to come to grips that 100+ oil companies went bankrupt during Trump and several refineries closed down. And that the largest refinery in Texas was taken over by the Saudis under Trump's watch.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
Hawkeye
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Hawkeye »

Canpakes wrote:
If Biden caused gas to go up more than he made the price decline afterwards, then Biden voters end up supporting him for putting them through more economic pain than not. Even if the price comes back down to the same level as before the increase, voters will have paid more during the time of higher prices … which represented economic pain.

Is that how you see it?
Yes and I think that's how low income Democratic voters see it. I didn't say voters were rational.
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Hawkeye wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:41 pm
I didn't say voters were rational.
That’s the most self-aware thing I’ve ever seen you post.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Res Ipsa »

Hawkeye wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:34 pm
The problem is that you stubbornly cling to the claim that reducing fossil fuel production requires higher gas prices. It doesn’t. There are two sides to the equation: supply and demand. You keep ignoring the demand side of the equation. Subsidizing the changeover to electric cars reduces the demand gas, so the price of gas falls.
Are you saying that Democrats plan to provide electric car purchase vouchers to their constituents? Do you think the price of gas will rise or fall after the November 2022 elections Res Ipsa?
No. But have you read the climate portion of the law that was just passed? I believe it includes subsidies to encourage people to switch from ice to electric vehicles. That will lead to a reduction in gas prices.

I have no idea what gas prices will do in the near term. But I’m pretty confident that any change in prices will have little to nothing to do with anything the US government does. There are two significant sources of petroleum that are being boycotted right now: Russia and Iran. I just read that the parties are close to implementing the Iran nuclear agreement. If they succeed or if the Ukraine war ends, that’s a significant volume of oil that goes back on the market. That should drive the price of oil down substantially. But who knows. As the world transitions away from fossil fuels. I expect continued volatility.
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Vēritās »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:06 pm
Hawkeye wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:34 pm


Are you saying that Democrats plan to provide electric car purchase vouchers to their constituents? Do you think the price of gas will rise or fall after the November 2022 elections Res Ipsa?
No. But have you read...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, you lost me there. Did you just ask ajax if he actually read something not published by Brietbart?
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Doctor Steuss »

WTI Crude (September contract) is currently trading at under $90 a barrel ($87.85 as of this post). Gas is trading at $2.92, which is the lowest since the end of Feb. Both have been steadily trending down since June.

Thanks Obama.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Res Ipsa »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:14 pm
WTI Crude (September contract) is currently trading at under $90 a barrel ($87.85 as of this post). Gas is trading at $2.92, which is the lowest since the end of Feb. Both have been steadily trending down since June.

Thanks Obama.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
Vēritās
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Re: Biden's Economy?

Post by Vēritās »

So we're already producing more than we were pre-pandemic, but the issue with inflation is that consumption has been shooting through the roof. Kinda weird for all these people to be spending money at a record rate when we're supposed to be in a depression, or whatever Brietbart says.

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"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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