New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

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Chap
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by Chap »

Moksha wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:08 pm
huckelberry wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:50 am
I do not think people expressing fear of Trump is the same as proof of treason.
The treason of Trump comes in many forms, but first and foremost comes in the form of trying to overthrow a democratic election and have himself appointed as a lifetime dictator. The second charge of this indictment should be in conspiring with a foreign power against the government of the United States. The third would be in turning the Republican party into a bunch of lying weenies.
We certainly do have evidence of his intention to overthrow an election which (despite the indefatigable efforts of his lawyers and political allies) has not been shown to have been affected by fraud to any extent even remotely likely to have changed the result of that election from a Trump victory to a Biden victory.

As human beings, we are constantly involved in making mental models of the mind-states of others; we need to do this in order to judge how they are likely to act, and to react to what we do. We can of course judge people's mind-states by their actions. It is legitimate, on the basis of Trump's actions (and speech is in itself an action) to conclude that he strongly wishes to overturn the election despite the absence of any solid evidence justifying that.

It is also legitimate, given Trump's long and well documented record of lying (that is, saying something that is not true and that any reasonable person in his position would be aware was untrue) to conclude that he does not see the truth or falsehood of a statement as important compared to the advantage he hopes to derive from making the statement in question.
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by Chap »

More babbling, I see.

And this is interesting how?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
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Icarus
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by Icarus »

Cultellus wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:16 am
Icarus wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:47 pm


Enter Exhibit A as to why you're not a serious person. You didn't even read the article, but rather mined one line out of it and ignored the fact that these notes come directly from the people who were working for Trump. You're also oblivious to the fact that the Justice Dept is to be completely independent from the Executive, despite Trump's numerous attempts to weaponize it for his purposes. Biden told the Justice Dept many months ago that he expects them to act independently and he has no intention of recommending to them investigations into his predecessor.

And someone needs a dictionary lesson on irony apparently.
Your expertise on the DOJ comes from what, exactly? A story about a book that you have not read? Or wikipedia?
It comes from education. By definition the dept. of justice enforces the law and defends the interests of the United States according to the law, which makes no sense if it were beholden to any President. Especially if a President were acting against the interests of the United States.
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by Chap »

Cultellus wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:49 am
You said the DOJ took instructions from Biden
Um, he said:
Biden told the Justice Dept many months ago that he expects them to act independently and he has no intention of recommending to them investigations into his predecessor.
Saying one expected the DOK to act independently is hardly "giving them instructions" is it?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by Icarus »

Chap wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:21 am
Cultellus wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:49 am
You said the DOJ took instructions from Biden
Um, he said:
Biden told the Justice Dept many months ago that he expects them to act independently and he has no intention of recommending to them investigations into his predecessor.
Saying one expected the DOK to act independently is hardly "giving them instructions" is it?
One of many reasons why Cult is a disingenuous hack. Even my eight year old could see that isn't what I said.
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by Chap »

Cultellus wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:51 pm
So, telling them to act independently is not an instruction?
In the interpretation of most normal people, saying that of another poster that he has claimed
the DOJ took instructions from Biden
Would suggest that the poster said Biden told the DoJ how to act in particular cases. Whereas in fact the whole point of Biden's statement about the independence of the DoJ was that he would not tell them how to act in particular cases. That isn't an instruction in any normal sense of the term.

And I think you know that.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by Res Ipsa »

I just started John Dean and Bob Altemeyer's Authoritarian Nightmare. First four chapters are Trump and how his authoritarianism developed. But i think the rest of the book, which talks about his base and why they are so willing to trade away their freedom for authoritarianism, will be the most interesting part. The last book I read on the topic was Hoffer's The True Believer, so I'm looking forward to the modern research the book includes.
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by ceeboo »

Hey RI

Please offer me some grace concerning my reply. I seriously want to understand your position. (thanks)
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:16 pm
But i think the rest of the book, which talks about his base and why they are so willing to trade away their freedom for authoritarianism, will be the most interesting part.
To be honest with you, I almost fell out of my chair when I read this.

If you would, please share your views/thoughts that lead you to believe that it is, in fact, the politically conservative voters in America that "are so willing do trade away their freedom for authoritarianism?"
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by ajax18 »

Authoritarianism is when an unelected sovereign tells you what to do often times while hiding any data and shutting down any dissent. This is more akin to what the CDC is doing by ordering landlords not to continue building houses for people to live in rent or mortgage free or demanding that entire industries be shut down rather than allowing people the freedom to make their own risk/reward assessment when living their life.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: New Book Proves more Treason from Trump

Post by Res Ipsa »

ceeboo wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:46 pm
Hey RI

Please offer me some grace concerning my reply. I seriously want to understand your position. (thanks)
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:16 pm
But i think the rest of the book, which talks about his base and why they are so willing to trade away their freedom for authoritarianism, will be the most interesting part.
To be honest with you, I almost fell out of my chair when I read this.

If you would, please share your views/thoughts that lead you to believe that it is, in fact, the politically conservative voters in America that "are so willing do trade away their freedom for authoritarianism?"
Hi Ceeboo,

The book isn't about the "politically conservative voters in America." It's about Trump's base, which has nothing to do with political conservatism. Trump is not a political conservative by any conventional definition of the term. He's an authoritarian. Authoritarianism has been studied for decades. There's lots of literature on it.

If you haven't read any literature on authoritarianism, a great place to start is The True Believer by Eric Hoffer. It's not about authoritarianism per se, but about mass movements, why they form, and why people are attracted to their leaders. I read it for a class at BYU in the 1970s, so its been around a long time. There are lots other books available on authoritarianism.

I suspect you fell out your chair because you've bought into right wing propaganda that authoritarians are only on the left. Right-wing media is very good at branding the left with criticisms that apply equally (sometimes more often) to the right. Trump's all out attack on a free and fair election to stay in power is a classic authoritarian action, with those who supported him in that willing to give up the freedom of a full and fair election to keep the loser of the election in office a surrender of freedom. Likewise, their support of his attempts to undermine the balance of power between the branches as a means of exercising power is the same thing. They don't see it, because they are only looking at short-term interests. But surrendering the political institutions that give the people power in favor of a single, strong executive is the essence of authoritarianism.

Or, you could read the book I'm reading. I can't recommend it yet, as I haven't really gotten into it yet. Maybe it will be good, maybe a dud. I'll let you know.
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