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With the concern about the H1N1, numerous church organizations have instructed members of their congregations to AVOID hugging, hand-shaking, kissing, and all other personal contacts with friends, neighbors, and church members as they attend the Praise God services for all God’s blessings. The admonition to avoid personal contact dismisses God as their protector from H1N1 flu.

Protection is based on applied science. Apparently, God (the illusion) does not address germs. Yet, that same God is in control, responsible for ALL that IS which presumably would include the invisible virus and germ danger.

Churches which use the common “cup” for wine have resorted to the individual small glasses (or plastic), and the priests or ministers place the bread in the hand of those at communion rather than on the tongue (as previously done) in some religious groups.

While it takes decades and centuries to diminish the God myths, those myths are diminished over time. The recognized fact by religious organizations here is that God is irrelevant. They don’t admit that. At the same time, priests and ministers ask church members to pray for those who are ill with H1N1. The after-the-fact-prayer for “healing” is bogus and absurd.

Historically, religious myth has been diminished or obliterated by genuine information (science). We can expect the farce of religious claims to continue well into the future. Education and information begin anew with every birth. We know only what we learn from all the sources available to us to learn. The degree to which growing children are deprived of genuine information in favor of religious dogma is a degree to which growing children are kept ignorant. “Home schooling” or religious schooling is a successful way to deprive children of information and education. Many in the USA are involved in that very deprivation of their youth.

It is, of course, good business for religion to keep the money coming to perpetuate the religious myths and to feed the hierarchy of any religious organization. But, for now, don’t hug, kiss, shake hands, or otherwise contact people at religious groupings. God is out to lunch or some other escape which religious groups offer in their God inventions.

JAK

I have no idea how you think this is a point. I mean....is it that good hygiene or good sense is a lack of faith in God?

I'm reminded of the old Muslim story about a man asking Muhammed what he should do. He wanted to tie up his camel when he left it but at the same time wanted to trust that Allah would make sure it did not wander away or get stolen. His response:

"Tie up the camel and then trust Allah."

"Trust God, but verify."

Somewhere there is a great joke about how God puts the Pure in Purell. I just can't think of it right now.

Put your trust in God, my boys, and keep your powder dry.

Oliver Cromwell

The Nehor wrote:I have no idea how you think this is a point. I mean....is it that good hygiene or good sense is a lack of faith in God?

I'm reminded of the old Muslim story about a man asking Muhammed what he should do. He wanted to tie up his camel when he left it but at the same time wanted to trust that Allah would make sure it did not wander away or get stolen. His response:

"Tie up the camel and then trust Allah."

The “point” is that God is irrelevant. Those who “pray” for good health or that they will escape the H1N1 flu are engaged in the irrelevant. One avoids a communicable disease by avoiding contact with the genuine cause of the disease. Generally, those with virtually any religious belief system which incorporates power of God petition that assumed mythological “power” to intervene in their behalf or in the behalf of others whom they know.

Prior to intellectual understanding of the genuine cause of illness and disease, religious God believing people prayed to their God for “healing,” and for “protection” from potential causes of death.

Of course it’s “good hygiene” and in today’s world, “good sense” to avoid contact with that which spreads disease. God is irrelevant. God was just as irrelevant decades and centuries ago when people prayed to their God in an effort to manipulate their God to their own benefit. Then, they believed that illness and death were directly attributable to “sin.” Then, they “prayed” to be “forgiven” for their “sin” for wellness not to mention “eternal life.”

They did not become ill because of “sin.” Sin is also an invention of humans as an attempt to explain or manipulate behavior. As genuine cause is identified and understood for anything, God myths become irrelevant. Yet, today, people continue to “pray” in an attempt to manipulate their God.

Example: “God, bless this food to the strengthening of our bodies…”

Food will strengthen people who consume food. God notions are irrelevant. People who have little food or no food will be malnourished and/or will die of starvation. “Prayer” is irrelevant. God notions are irrelevant.

Just today, NPR reported that fully one-half the world’s population lives on $2 (or less) a day. That half exists/lives relatively short life. What they need is food, information, education, medical science. They need sanitation.

Religion does not thrive or rational thinking. Yet, today, many religious groups yield to “good sense” as evidenced by applied, scientific knowledge. The priest or minister who prays for the recovery from H1N1 in his parish or congregation makes a hollow and pointless “prayer.” If someone got the flu, it was from the virus which causes that flu. If someone recovers, it is because of their state of health, their age, their medical care.

Religion does not rely nor thrive on “good sense.” In fact, it is the antithesis of rational consideration and accumulated knowledge and information.

The point is that belief contrary to fact or belief in spite of fact is dangerous and places people at risk who rely on God notions as opposed to established, applied science.

We avoid the flu by avoiding being contaminated by the flu virus. God is no protector as most who subscribe to some religious myth would like to believe. “Good hygiene” IS a protector against the flu. “Faith in God” is irrelevant. The ancients didn’t know that. Many today don’t know that.

JAK

JAK,

How familiar are you with the Bible?

Richard

JAK wrote:The “point” is that God is irrelevant.

Ahhhh...I thought you might actually have something original to say.

Those who “pray” for good health or that they will escape the H1N1 flu are engaged in the irrelevant. One avoids a communicable disease by avoiding contact with the genuine cause of the disease. Generally, those with virtually any religious belief system which incorporates power of God petition that assumed mythological “power” to intervene in their behalf or in the behalf of others whom they know.

Sure.

Prior to intellectual understanding of the genuine cause of illness and disease, religious God believing people prayed to their God for “healing,” and for “protection” from potential causes of death.

Oh PLEASE!

Why must you make the ancients sound like such putzes? Most didn't think disease was a supernatural manifestation. Here. Take the story of Joseph, the stepfather of Jesus. He found out that his fiance was pregnant and was ready to divorce her....why? Because he KNEW that women don't get pregnant unless they have sex. He accepted that what happened was miracle. Science doesn't change the equation. If my fiance got pregnant I know that doesn't normally happen unless she had sex UNLESS God interfered.

Of course it’s “good hygiene” and in today’s world, “good sense” to avoid contact with that which spreads disease. God is irrelevant. God was just as irrelevant decades and centuries ago when people prayed to their God in an effort to manipulate their God to their own benefit. Then, they believed that illness and death were directly attributable to “sin.” Then, they “prayed” to be “forgiven” for their “sin” for wellness not to mention “eternal life.”

I think you might want to look up the word irrelevant. I do not think it means what you think it means.

They did not become ill because of “sin.” Sin is also an invention of humans as an attempt to explain or manipulate behavior. As genuine cause is identified and understood for anything, God myths become irrelevant. Yet, today, people continue to “pray” in an attempt to manipulate their God.

Genuine Cause? What???? That I understand gravity does not mean it is not possible God created it. That I understand intercourse does not mean I don't believe God sent a child. That we understand the cause of disease does not mean a supreme being can't heal it.

Example: “God, bless this food to the strengthening of our bodies…”

Food will strengthen people who consume food. God notions are irrelevant. People who have little food or no food will be malnourished and/or will die of starvation. “Prayer” is irrelevant. God notions are irrelevant.

It does not follow that God can't manipulate events to provide someone food.

Just today, NPR reported that fully one-half the world’s population lives on $2 (or less) a day. That half exists/lives relatively short life. What they need is food, information, education, medical science. They need sanitation.

I agree. The problem is that most of those nations need infrastructure and a massive cultural shift to achieve these things. Western civilization, based on Greek reason, Christianity, and raised on European scarcity developed a work ethic and culture that led to a program of technological, political, and social advancement. Progress was halted in the Dark Ages for a time but the rediscovery of the old wisdom kick-started change.

Religion does not thrive or rational thinking. Yet, today, many religious groups yield to “good sense” as evidenced by applied, scientific knowledge. The priest or minister who prays for the recovery from H1N1 in his parish or congregation makes a hollow and pointless “prayer.” If someone got the flu, it was from the virus which causes that flu. If someone recovers, it is because of their state of health, their age, their medical care.

Religious groups have almost always yielded to 'good sense'. This is not some new modern development.

Religion does not rely nor thrive on “good sense.” In fact, it is the antithesis of rational consideration and accumulated knowledge and information.

You say that about the organization (Catholics) most responsible for the preservation of accumulated knowledge through the last two millenia. You might want to learn a little history instead of spouting off this "We Smart, Ancestors Know Nothing" garbage.

The point is that belief contrary to fact or belief in spite of fact is dangerous and places people at risk who rely on God notions as opposed to established, applied science.

Okay, I live by my "God notions". How am I in danger?

We avoid the flu by avoiding being contaminated by the flu virus. God is no protector as most who subscribe to some religious myth would like to believe. “Good hygiene” IS a protector against the flu. “Faith in God” is irrelevant. The ancients didn’t know that. Many today don’t know that.

Good hygiene is not something modern invented either. Read about Rome? Greece? Know how close the Greeks were to the germ theory of disease? Even when they believed in Zeus?

You seem to have a jaundiced view of history where science fixed everything and all religious people were deluded fools, that rational thought is a recent development, and it saved us all from those horrible 'religions'. I encourage you to read good history.

Again, what mental problems do you have that lead to this kind of thinking? You've dodged that question repeatedly. Autism?

JohnStuartMill wrote:"Trust God, but verify."

“Trust God” is not required, verification of claims made by religious pundits, cults, sects, and denominations IS. Just what is meant by “Trust God” is open to question and interpretation, isn’t it?

It appears to assume God. Absent genuine, transparent, testable data, one should be skeptical of claims and should require verification from those who make claims.

JAK

Post Reference

No response to misquotes and mischaracterizations, Nehor.

JAK