Criminal Charges Against Trump?

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Moksha »

MeDotOrg wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:43 am
Nevertheless I'm somewhat surprised at the consensus that he will never be charged.
Republicans have engaged in histrionic behavior for so long, that bringing them to justice implies listening to a kicking and screaming tantrum for the next several decades. Few want to contemplate such a tantrum.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Res Ipsa »

MeDotOrg wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:43 am
As dangerous as Trump's grab for power was, perception that criminal charges against the President were part of a deep state act of political retribution would be devastating as well.

Don't expect indictments tomorrow or next week. I would imagine that this case will be double and triple checked at every step along the way. Nevertheless I'm somewhat surprised at the consensus that he will never be charged. Honestly my prognostication abilities in this area have been less than stellar, but I think the case for criminal conspiracy between Trump and Jeffrey Clark seems pretty self-evident. Remember, conspiracy is merely the act of conspiring, the act does not need to be completed. So Clark's letter(s) and Trump's phone calls would be prima facie evidence of a conspiracy.

My understanding is that some of Jeff Rosen's 7 hours of testimony could be released this week. That could make for some interesting reading.
Rosen's testimony is something I'd like to read.

Dr. Exiled likely knows this area of law better than I do, but I believe conspiracy is a crime only if the object of the conspiracy is illegal. So what law would the Trump-Clark conspiracy be intended to violate? I just don't know federal criminal law that well.

I think jailing a former president who talks about running again is one of those lines I think we need to think very carefully about before crossing it. Jailing political opponents is a tricky thing. If the Republicans gain a majority in the House while Biden is President, I think we're likely to see an impeachment for the same reason a dog licks its balls. The same with jailing a former president. With a substantial percentage of the population and one of the two major political parties going full-on authoritarian, we might want to proceed with caution.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by honorentheos »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:52 am
I think jailing a former president who talks about running again is one of those lines I think we need to think very carefully about before crossing it. Jailing political opponents is a tricky thing. If the Republicans gain a majority in the House while Biden is President, I think we're likely to see an impeachment for the same reason a dog licks its balls. The same with jailing a former president. With a substantial percentage of the population and one of the two major political parties going full-on authoritarian, we might want to proceed with caution.
Amen, and well said. For an example, we need look no further than the January 6 insurrection. Many a person on Facebook I talked with about it argued that the Dems had tried to steal the election from Trump during the validation of the electoral college results in 2016. It's like drinking with a friend prone to violence who doesn't have any middle gears in their reactions. A little thing goes from zero to fisticuffs at the drop of a hat with excuses of the other party having started it or some such.
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by honorentheos »

Moksha wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:34 am
MeDotOrg wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:43 am
Nevertheless I'm somewhat surprised at the consensus that he will never be charged.
Republicans have engaged in histrionic behavior for so long, that bringing them to justice implies listening to a kicking and screaming tantrum for the next several decades. Few want to contemplate such a tantrum.
For what it's worth I don't know where the solution space lies, but if there is any hope to be had it must begin with finding common ground from which to build. If we write one another off completely, the momentum can quite easily carry us into tragedy.

In this case, I think if there is any hope that any criminal activities Trump participated in while president have a fair day in court, particularly ones that undermined democracy, it will need to have bi-partisan support to avoid catastrophic consequences. Is that possible? I don't know. I had some hope that Mitch McConnell saw the insurrection as a line that had been crossed, or that others in the room would stand up for the institutions of American Democracy independent of politics. But I also figured the Democrats would have a hard time keeping the discussion professional and not try to run victory laps under the premise of, "We told you so!" which turned out to be a problem, too. So, who knows. We're dumb animals with genes that undermine our potential all the time, and currently politics is really putting that out there for all to see.
User avatar
Atlanticmike
God
Posts: 2721
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:16 pm

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Atlanticmike »

Moksha wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:20 am
Do you think the DOJ will bring criminal charges against Trump, even with overwhelming evidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLwlG0mFq_I
Well, if Trump does end up in prison at some point maybe he can share a cell with now disgraced Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Moksha »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:48 am
Well, if Trump does end up in prison at some point maybe he can share a cell with now-disgraced Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo.
Perhaps at Allenwood Federal Penitentiary.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Atlanticmike
God
Posts: 2721
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:16 pm

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Atlanticmike »

Moksha wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:24 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:48 am
Well, if Trump does end up in prison at some point maybe he can share a cell with now-disgraced Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo.
Perhaps at Allenwood Federal Penitentiary.
I was thinking Guantanamo Bay would be better for both of them
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:48 am
Moksha wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:20 am
Do you think the DOJ will bring criminal charges against Trump, even with overwhelming evidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLwlG0mFq_I
Well, if Trump does end up in prison at some point maybe he can share a cell with now disgraced Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo.
whataboutguysayswhat?
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Some Schmo »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:20 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:48 am
Well, if Trump does end up in prison at some point maybe he can share a cell with now disgraced Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo.
whataboutguysayswhat?
If Trump and Cuomo shared a cell, I wonder who would try to sexually harass the other first.

It's my turn to rape...!

No, mine...!
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Res Ipsa »

Cultellus wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:45 pm
A. Cuomo was a threat to Harris being the President.
whataboutguysaywhat?
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
Post Reply