Criminal Charges Against Trump?

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Res Ipsa »

Cultellus wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:03 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:01 pm

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honorentheos
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by honorentheos »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:15 pm
Moksha wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:24 pm

Perhaps at Allenwood Federal Penitentiary.
I was thinking Guantanamo Bay would be better for both of them
Hi AtlanticMike,

Given this response above it seems you see both parties have legal issues. Setting aside the degree of issue, I'm curious for the sake of discussion what makes sense as a way to advance the discussion in a meaningful way? Is there value in getting into details regarding the activities involved? The state of the investigations? It seems like if we agree the goal is richer discussion here I'm looking for help in understanding what that looks like using an example where we may share some common ground.
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by ceeboo »

Hey honor - long time no type. Hope all is well.

I understand your post wasn't addressed to me but I thought I'd force my way in regarding possible common ground.

honorentheos wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:54 pm
It seems like if we agree the goal is richer discussion here I'm looking for help in understanding what that looks like using an example where we may share some common ground.
I think there needs to be a unified effort, by the people, to reform the entire political system in this country. I think all of these corrupted political clowns (left and right and center) need to start being forced to be accountable to the people. In addition, I think there should be a full investigation done on every single elected official that has become a multi-millionaire after they were elected and took office. Generally speaking, It's fantastically absurd to believe that they are really representing the people that they are supposed to be representing. It is my opinion that these clowns love the fact that Americans are greatly divided and I think they do their part to make sure it stays that way - If we are all hating on each other, they can continue doing what they do and the citizens will remain distracted to what the hell they are doing.

Of course, like everything, there are exceptions. I am sure that there are some elected officials that are very decent and honest people that have entered this arena to serve. (Like, maybe a dozen or so) :)
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Atlanticmike »

honorentheos wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:54 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:15 pm


I was thinking Guantanamo Bay would be better for both of them
Hi AtlanticMike,

Given this response above it seems you see both parties have legal issues. Setting aside the degree of issue, I'm curious for the sake of discussion what makes sense as a way to advance the discussion in a meaningful way? Is there value in getting into details regarding the activities involved? The state of the investigations? It seems like if we agree the goal is richer discussion here I'm looking for help in understanding what that looks like using an example where we may share some common ground.
Hi honorentheos

I love finding common ground so let me tell you where I stand politically. I consider myself conservative with some liberal leanings. I think right now we are being governed by the far left and also the far right and it pisses me off. Both sides are screaming so loud the normal people in the middle are being drowned out. I'm a very positive person but I don't see any one on the political stage, right or left, that could even come close to helping us come together.
As far as what you asked above. I don't know if getting into details will accomplish anything. Honestly, I can't stand political stuff. I don't watch cable news anymore and I stopped listening to AM talk shows a while ago. Life's short and that crap is depressing. The only reason I started political threads here in spirit paradise was to piss off doc cam and schmo😂😂😂. I didn't care about those threads, that's why I posted videos in them. If you want to talk politics that's fine but I'm more interested in Mormonism and personal issues. Feel free to ask anything though, I'm an open book.


Oh, by the way, i don't actually like Donald Trump. But I do think he was necessary. He was able to expose a lot of the corruption on both sides. I think he and Cuomo would make great cell mates.
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by canpakes »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:17 am
Oh, by the way, i don't actually like Donald Trump. But I do think he was necessary. He was able to expose a lot of the corruption on both sides.
He certainly insisted on providing some examples of his own.
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by honorentheos »

ceeboo wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:49 pm
Hey honor - long time no type. Hope all is well.

I understand your post wasn't addressed to me but I thought I'd force my way in regarding possible common ground.

honorentheos wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:54 pm
It seems like if we agree the goal is richer discussion here I'm looking for help in understanding what that looks like using an example where we may share some common ground.
I think there needs to be a unified effort, by the people, to reform the entire political system in this country. I think all of these corrupted political clowns (left and right and center) need to start being forced to be accountable to the people. In addition, I think there should be a full investigation done on every single elected official that has become a multi-millionaire after they were elected and took office. Generally speaking, It's fantastically absurd to believe that they are really representing the people that they are supposed to be representing. It is my opinion that these clowns love the fact that Americans are greatly divided and I think they do their part to make sure it stays that way - If we are all hating on each other, they can continue doing what they do and the citizens will remain distracted to what the hell they are doing.

Of course, like everything, there are exceptions. I am sure that there are some elected officials that are very decent and honest people that have entered this arena to serve. (Like, maybe a dozen or so) :)
Hi ceebs,

You certainly tapped into the zeitgeist of the moment and illuminated the feeling I think many have across the political spectrum that despite living in a country with representative government, they feel anything but represented by their government.

There are reasons for this, valid ones but also ones that should really cause some reflection on the part of all parties involved rather than just assuming the fault lies in Washington alone. We took the brochures, we attended the free getaway weekends, we signed the contract. Yeah, the timeshare company is sleezy and knowing taking advantage of us but we walked in eyes open thinking we were getting all the upsides and no downsides to our decisions.

What do I mean by that? Well, let's start with progressives and Democrats. Bill Clinton was an immensely popular president whose famous phrase, "It's the economy, stupid" cut to the quick of an issue in American politics brought on by the Reagan administration. He tapped into a sense among many that the American dream seemed to be slipping away, if only slowly at the time. The Democrat party moved so far to the middle-right on economic and foreign policy the line was practically erased between the artificial binary party choices on everything but social issues. The budget got balanced, bubbles were created, cigars were taken to new places, and the country became even more polarized than before even as the differences between the parties seemed to have become their most insignificant. Many on the political left felt betrayed as labor unions and traditional Democrat voters found themselves being counted on to vote for people who were more like Eisenhower than FDR in their politics, where Richard Nixon could be described by some without irony as the last true progressive president. The current mood is very much in line with your statement, feeling that radical change is needed but their party is more interested in buying up abandoned real-estate left behind by the radicalization of the right.

So, let's talk about the right. As noted above, economic policy - REAL economic policy, not sloganeering about flushing government down the drain, etc., - has been both a driver in political anger and popular dissatisfaction with many on the right long before Clinton made Third Way economic policy the Democrat norm. Reagan Democrats represented a shift among traditional democratic voters who began to see Democrats as no longer representing the average guy on the street. How did Republicans capitalize on this? Did they champion labor, build programs that strengthened the middle class? Pushed for better schools that could lead to more opportunities and and an even better, brighter Morning in America? No. Instead, they focused on the remaining differences over social issues and turned politics into a war over morality. Reagan undermined the middle class and programs that benefited American egalitarianism through his tax cuts while fighting a war on drugs, talking about defending traditional American Christian values as if they are one and the same thing, and establishing the trajectory that took us through the 90s and eventually to Trump. People who felt deeply patriotic and aligned with traditional values of God and Country found themselves being marketed to with stories of how government was the real villain when it took from their hard earn paychecks to try and give it to undeserving people who also were cast as opponents of all things good and right. Everywhere one looked there were takers taking bigger and bigger chunks from the paychecks of honest Americans while Democrats were hell bent on kicking God out of the country. Economic policy? Ph-sha! It's taxes and government, brothers and sisters!

Libraries could be built to house the books written about these dynamics. Why does so called fly over country vote against their own economic interests? Why do minorities vote Democrat in even further failing cities and left behind communities? Why do people who claim God and country are central to their worldview vote for a godless global elite famous for lying and cheating? Why do progressives eat up slogans about hope and change when there are no substantial plans presented that chart a clear path towards either?

Bah! Watch the movie Idocracy! That's conservatives in a nut shell. Check out the latest Prager U video about 20-something college students who don't want opinions they disagree with even whispered about on campus. The libs are crazy!

So, throw the bums out. But then there will be more bums, probably worse bums taking their place. That is, unless we hit the pause button and recalibrate regarding what is going on, why we're being sold the narratives we are, and above all else we should own that we do, in fact, have representative government. And that's a problem. We voted for slogans and promises while ignoring the fine print that came with the very people we voted for, not against.
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by honorentheos »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:17 am
honorentheos wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:54 pm


Hi AtlanticMike,

Given this response above it seems you see both parties have legal issues. Setting aside the degree of issue, I'm curious for the sake of discussion what makes sense as a way to advance the discussion in a meaningful way? Is there value in getting into details regarding the activities involved? The state of the investigations? It seems like if we agree the goal is richer discussion here I'm looking for help in understanding what that looks like using an example where we may share some common ground.
Hi honorentheos

I love finding common ground so let me tell you where I stand politically. I consider myself conservative with some liberal leanings.
Hi Atlanticmike,

I'm not sure that my views can drop out of the box of my head in a way that lands easily on the spectrum of left and right. My rather long post in the Watching Progressives thread presented some of my thoughts, but lets say for now that given we both have both conservative and liberal leanings on various issue, that should be promising that we can find places to discuss, agree, disagree amiably, and you'll probably call me a dick at some point because I am one and that just slips out sometimes. But I hope when it happens we know it's all in good sport on both of our parts. Deal?
I think right now we are being governed by the far left and also the far right and it pisses me off. Both sides are screaming so loud the normal people in the middle are being drowned out. I'm a very positive person but I don't see any one on the political stage, right or left, that could even come close to helping us come together.
My views aren't far off of this either. I said something similar above to ceebs. And yeah, politics seems to suck the positivity out of life very easily. That said,...
As far as what you asked above. I don't know if getting into details will accomplish anything. Honestly, I can't stand political stuff. I don't watch cable news anymore and I stopped listening to AM talk shows a while ago. Life's short and that crap is depressing. The only reason I started political threads here in spirit paradise was to piss off doc cam and schmo😂😂😂. I didn't care about those threads, that's why I posted videos in them. If you want to talk politics that's fine but I'm more interested in Mormonism and personal issues. Feel free to ask anything though, I'm an open book.
I have been away from Mormonism since 2007, and I think it's worked its way out of me to the point I can't care much less about it. I do like to talk about political fundamentals. Much more so than the nitty gritty dirt dealing that seems to pass for political discourse. Meta-narratives...it's were the magic happens. ;)

Oh, by the way, i don't actually like Donald Trump. But I do think he was necessary. He was able to expose a lot of the corruption on both sides. I think he and Cuomo would make great cell mates.
I don't have a high opinion of Cuomo, but he wasn't selling democracy out from the White House with wide-spread support so that may not be a place of common ground. Regardless, welcome.
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by ceeboo »

Honor!
honorentheos wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:21 am

Hi ceebs,

You certainly tapped into the zeitgeist of the moment and illuminated the feeling I think many have across the political spectrum that despite living in a country with representative government, they feel anything but represented by their government.

There are reasons for this, valid ones but also ones that should really cause some reflection on the part of all parties involved rather than just assuming the fault lies in Washington alone. We took the brochures, we attended the free getaway weekends, we signed the contract. Yeah, the timeshare company is sleezy and knowing taking advantage of us but we walked in eyes open thinking we were getting all the upsides and no downsides to our decisions.

What do I mean by that? Well, let's start with progressives and Democrats. Bill Clinton was an immensely popular president whose famous phrase, "It's the economy, stupid" cut to the quick of an issue in American politics brought on by the Reagan administration. He tapped into a sense among many that the American dream seemed to be slipping away, if only slowly at the time. The Democrat party moved so far to the middle-right on economic and foreign policy the line was practically erased between the artificial binary party choices on everything but social issues. The budget got balanced, bubbles were created, cigars were taken to new places, and the country became even more polarized than before even as the differences between the parties seemed to have become their most insignificant. Many on the political left felt betrayed as labor unions and traditional Democrat voters found themselves being counted on to vote for people who were more like Eisenhower than FDR in their politics, where Richard Nixon could be described by some without irony as the last true progressive president. The current mood is very much in line with your statement, feeling that radical change is needed but their party is more interested in buying up abandoned real-estate left behind by the radicalization of the right.

So, let's talk about the right. As noted above, economic policy - REAL economic policy, not sloganeering about flushing government down the drain, etc., - has been both a driver in political anger and popular dissatisfaction with many on the right long before Clinton made Third Way economic policy the Democrat norm. Reagan Democrats represented a shift among traditional democratic voters who began to see Democrats as no longer representing the average guy on the street. How did Republicans capitalize on this? Did they champion labor, build programs that strengthened the middle class? Pushed for better schools that could lead to more opportunities and and an even better, brighter Morning in America? No. Instead, they focused on the remaining differences over social issues and turned politics into a war over morality. Reagan undermined the middle class and programs that benefited American egalitarianism through his tax cuts while fighting a war on drugs, talking about defending traditional American Christian values as if they are one and the same thing, and establishing the trajectory that took us through the 90s and eventually to Trump. People who felt deeply patriotic and aligned with traditional values of God and Country found themselves being marketed to with stories of how government was the real villain when it took from their hard earn paychecks to try and give it to undeserving people who also were cast as opponents of all things good and right. Everywhere one looked there were takers taking bigger and bigger chunks from the paychecks of honest Americans while Democrats were hell bent on kicking God out of the country. Economic policy? Ph-sha! It's taxes and government, brothers and sisters!

Libraries could be built to house the books written about these dynamics. Why does so called fly over country vote against their own economic interests? Why do minorities vote Democrat in even further failing cities and left behind communities? Why do people who claim God and country are central to their worldview vote for a godless global elite famous for lying and cheating? Why do progressives eat up slogans about hope and change when there are no substantial plans presented that chart a clear path towards either?

Bah! Watch the movie Idocracy! That's conservatives in a nut shell. Check out the latest Prager U video about 20-something college students who don't want opinions they disagree with even whispered about on campus. The libs are crazy!

So, throw the bums out. But then there will be more bums, probably worse bums taking their place. That is, unless we hit the pause button and recalibrate regarding what is going on, why we're being sold the narratives we are,
I really need to read this at least two more times - once to make sure I didn't miss anything and twice to simply relax and enjoy your fantastic writing ability (To be clear, I'm being serious)
and above all else we should own that we do, in fact, have representative government. And that's a problem. We voted for slogans and promises while ignoring the fine print that came with the very people we voted for, not against.
If and when you have time, would you be so kind as to elaborate on this some more? (Especially the part about representative government being the problem) - Thanks!
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by Moksha »

For those following the news, Trump's very specific misdeeds transcend ideology.
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Re: Criminal Charges Against Trump?

Post by MeDotOrg »

There is a report that Jeffrey Clark will exercise his 5th Amendment Rights when he appears before the January 6th Committee.

If Clark does plead the 5th for activities that occurred while he was at Justice, the Justice Department would seem likely to open an investigation into his activities while employed there.

I imagine Clark could be granted immunity in exchange for his testimony, but I'm not sure of the conditions. Would he be offered something akin to a proffer? It would seem unlikely that the committee will give him immunity for an unknown.

The next few months could see some interesting developments with the January 6th Committee.
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