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This is a correct teaching but I note how slyly they slipped in that capitalism was somehow a 'correct principle' without any support.

Correct principles come largely from scripture yet they give no scriptural support for capitalism. Where in the Bible or Book of Mormon do they find it?

Perhaps Nehor, its time for a little Less Approaching Zion, and more, uh...scriptures.

Droopy wrote:
Perhaps Nehor, its time for a little Less Approaching Zion, and more, uh...scriptures.

There is no support for capitalism in any of the scriptures.

Hardly. Nothing in the New Testament could ever be used to support this Mormonesque twist, and you know it.

Really?

Why don't we begin with John 3:16.

We have an interesting statement in Gen 2:16:

Of every tree...thou mayest freely eat...

Matt. 24:14
Hebrews 11:25
Luke 6:47
Luke 10:42
Romans 6:16
Romans 6:17
Romans 10:16
Galatians 5:1
Galatians 5:7
Hebrews 5:9
Acts 5:29
1 Peter 1:22
1 Corinthians 7:22
James 4:17
Matthew 7:26
Luke 6:49
Revelation 22:11

James 4:7-8:

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Perhaps the most clearly expressed statement in the Bible regarding the concept of free agency and our fundamental freedom to "list to obey" whatever influences we desire, is of course Joshua 24:15:

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Well, of course we could go on and on and on. I do suspect that the reason Kevin specified only the New Testament is because, as he knows, the Book of Mormon and D&C are loaded with explicit references to our essential freedom to choose and its centrality in the gospel plan.

It is why you never provide any New Testament scripture to back up your claim. Neither does bcspace.

I just did (in highly truncated form).

He has to rely on some obscure Institute manual written by God knows who...

Kevin, take your temperature and get some rest.

The fact is Christ told us what to believe and how to act, with no leeway to "govern yourself" in ways contrary to the Gospel.

This is so conceptually vague and confused as to be unintelligible. As I have no idea what you're attempting to say, I won't respond to it.

Buffalo wrote:

Droopy wrote:
Perhaps Nehor, its time for a little Less Approaching Zion, and more, uh...scriptures.

There is no support for capitalism in any of the scriptures.

Try reading some of them first, and then come back and enter into an intelligent discussion of the subject, at some future time.

Droopy wrote:
Try reading some of them first, and then come back and enter into an intelligent discussion of the subject, at some future time.

I've read all of them. The silence on capitalism is deafening. As further evidenced by your complete inability to produce even one pro-capitalist passage.

Correct principles come largely from scripture yet they give no scriptural support for capitalism. Where in the Bible or Book of Mormon do they find it?

Matthew 25:14-30. This has, in a broader gospel context, relation to economic matters as well as all other gifts, abilities, skills, and potentialities we come into this mortal world with and develop while here.

Alma 50:17-20
Alma 62:48-49
Helaman 6:4-9
Helaman 6:12-14 (note here that it is when politics and political intrigue begin to impose themselves upon the economically free, prosperous society the Nephites and Lamanites were enjoying together because of their repentance and righteousness, that the trouble begins)

4 Nephi 23
Alma 1:29-31

In point of fact Nehor, you have absulutely nothing to bring to the table of critical argument here. While it is true that the scriptures contain no direct or explicit support for a theory of free market economic relations, it is also the case that they contain no criticism or refutation of such. What they do, of course contain, are explicit denunciations of greed, avarice, and pride, all of which are individual characteristics that, in and of themselves, have nothing to do with "capitalism," or free, rule of law governed contractual economic relations, any more than compassion and love have the slightest thing to do with socialism.

Nehor wrote:Correct principles come largely from scripture yet they give no scriptural support for capitalism. Where in the Bible or Book of Mormon do they find it?

Matthew 25:14-30. This has, in a broader gospel context, relation to economic matters as well as all other gifts, abilities, skills, and potentialities we come into this mortal world with and develop while here.

Alma 50:17-20
Alma 62:48-49
Helaman 6:4-9
Helaman 6:12-14 (note here that it is when politics and political intrigue begin to impose themselves upon the economically free, prosperous society the Nephites and Lamanites were enjoying together because of their repentance and righteousness, that the trouble begins)

4 Nephi 23
Alma 1:29-31

In point of fact Nehor, you have absulutely nothing to bring to the table of critical argument here. While it is true that the scriptures contain no direct or explicit support for a theory of free market economic relations, it is also the case that they contain no criticism or refutation of such. What they do, of course contain, are explicit denunciations of greed, avarice, and pride, all of which are individual characteristics that, in and of themselves, have nothing to do with "capitalism," or free, rule of law governed contractual economic relations, any more than compassion and love have the slightest thing to do with socialism.

Buffalo wrote:

Droopy wrote:
Try reading some of them first, and then come back and enter into an intelligent discussion of the subject, at some future time.

I've read all of them. The silence on capitalism is deafening. As further evidenced by your complete inability to produce even one pro-capitalist passage.

Could you define what you mean by "pro-capitalist passage"? As I've shown below (and more could be adduced), there are a number of clear references in the Book of Mormon that portray free market economic relations and individual economic imitative and effort as both a natural and unobtrusive state of affairs among the Nephites (something, in other words, the scriptures themselves have no real perspective upon) as well as a condition indicative of spiritual living and a generally righteous society.

I've never expected, nor would really expect, a theoretical trietise on free market economics in the scriptures, as this is hardly anything approching their purpose.

They do attack the individual attributes of greed, avarice, pride, and the withholding of substance by the rich, but never venture into any critique of economic systems.

Even the few vaunted verses about "having all things common" normally used to justify modern ideological glosses of scriptural texts, to the extent such cryptic and vague statements can be by any stretch of the imagination attached to any particular economic system at all, exist against this background and within this overarching free market context (as these have existed at different times and among different peoples).

Droopy wrote:
Could you define what you mean by "pro-capitalist passage"? As I've shown below (and more could be adduced), there are a number of clear references in the Book of Mormon that portray free market economic relations and individual economic imitative and effort as both a natural and unobtrusive state of affairs among the Nephites (something, in other words, the scriptures themselves have no real perspective upon) as well as a condition indicative of spiritual living and a generally righteous society.

I've never expected, nor would really expect, a theoretical trietise on free market economics in the scriptures, as this is hardly anything approching their purpose.

They do attack the individual attributes of greed, avarice, pride, and the withholding of substance by the rich, but never venture into any critique of economic systems.

Even the few vaunted verses about "having all things common" normally used to justify modern ideological glosses of scriptural texts, to the extent such cryptic and vague statements can be by any stretch of the imagination attached to any particular economic system at all, exist against this background and within this overarching free market context (as these have existed at different times and among different peoples).

You don't know what "pro-capitalist" means? Seriously?

Whenever the scriptures preach about economic systems, they always advocate some form of collectivism. You can hem and haw and deny that collectivism has anything to do with socialism all you like. I don't care if it does or it doesn't. The fact is that collectivism is the antithesis of capitalism. No form of capitalism is ever advocated.

Well, it is now well Past June of 2011:


Gas prices are highest ever for this time of year:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/gas- ... -1.3540153

Rising Gas Prices Give G.O.P. Issue to Attack Obama:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/us/po ... obama.html

L.A. on brink of $4-a-gallon gasoline ahead of holiday weekend:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-c ... 9939.story



When President Barack Obama first entered office, the National average price for gasoline was at about $2.00 a gallon.