The 2012 Election

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_Bond James Bond
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Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Bond James Bond »

cinepro wrote:
beastie wrote:I'm curious about this. Normally, when the incumbent had approval ratings below 50 (which Obama did at the beginning of the election cycle) and unemployment at 8%, conventional wisdom is that the challenger will win. Why did you have such low expectations for Romney?


I just remember the amount of "energy" there was for Obama last time round. The songs, the iconography, the stadiums. There was a huge amount of love and support. I even teared up (for joy) the night he was elected, because even though he was a Democrat and I hadn't voted for him, I was overwhelmed to see our first black president. It was a huge historical moment.

I also haven't been effected with the same loathing and disdain that many other conservatives have towards him. While I almost totally disagree with him politically, I still really like the guy. I know people who can't stand the way he walks and talks and have a real personal revulsion for him, but I just don't have a problem with him on that level.

On the other hand, Romney just doesn't do much for me. And as a white, middle class, conservative Mormon, that has always really worried me. If Romney can't connect with me, then what does that mean for everyone else. I respect him and think he would be a much better president, but there just isn't that "spark". And as I told my brother-in-law four years ago, I firmly believed that for the Republicans to win in 2012 they would need a "certified rock star".

Romney is many things, but he's not a rock star. So while I understand all the statistics and data that argue why Romney "should" win, if he doesn't, I'll always argue that it was because he just couldn't connect.


I think a lot of the enthusiasm gap (at least compared to 2008 for Obama) is that we're exhausted as a country. For four straight years people have been hearing about this election and on the Right how we need to vote out the communist socialist Kenyan before he destroys the country. I don't recall Clinton (at least until the Lewinsky scandal) or even Bush being assaulted in the media constantly about their backgrounds or whatever. Most people are straight up sick of hearing about it.

We've had a four year period of recession and then a slow moving recovery. In addition the four years have brought us gridlock of an unprecedented scale. Even when the Democrats had both houses the Republicans had enough votes to filibuster in the Senate which meant de facto gridlock. I think people are tired of the lack of economic growth, and Obama has caught the brunt of it because he's the public face of the American government. A lot of low information voters don't know who Mitch McConnell and John Boehner are but Obama is on TV everyday.

People also got to know Obama and realized that he was just another politician. A very good politician but certainly not apolitical enough to lead us into a post-racial/post-partisan America, despite any efforts on his part. He's not new anymore, he's just a moderate corporatist Democrat/Republican Lite who happens to be black. He's very remarkable but people must realize he's just a man, and any man has to have some deep burning fire to get to the Presidency. No one can "aw shucks" their way to the Presidency in this day and age "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" style.

His campaign also seems more corporate (with hundreds of offices and an intense ground game) in part because of the Citizens United ruling which has introduced literally billions into the campaign. It's not like a half-assed operation with any grass roots newness. His campaign is deeply cynical (as is Romney's) and is aimed not only at a few states but often a few counties. He's also the incumbent, and thus "the man" to young people and contrarians, meaning he's inherently not the cool thing anymore.

Still he's on track to win. If he wins the Republicans are going to have to do some soul searching because it's only going to get worse for them demographically.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Bond James Bond
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:21 pm

Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Bond James Bond »

[quote="Bond James Bond"]

Happy Halloween Boo! Republicans say the map is opening, Democrats say the map is tightening around Romney's neck. Who will be right? We'll know in six days. In the meantime I'm moving a couple of states:

Safe Obama: 275
California-55 (2008 - Obama)
New York-29 (2008 - Obama)
Illinois-20 (2008 - Obama's home state)
Washington-12 (2008 - Obama)
Oregon-7 (2008 - Obama)
Massachusetts-11 (2008 - Obama)
New Jersey-14 (2008 - Obama)
Hawaii-4 (2008 - Obama)
Minnesota-10 (2008 - Obama)
Maryland-10 (2008 - Obama)
Michigan-16 (2008 - Obama)
New Mexico-5 (2008 - Obama)
Maine-4 (2008 - Obama)
Delaware-3 (2008 - Obama)
Connecticut-4 (2008 - Obama)
Vermont-3 (2008 - Obama)
Rhode Island-3 (2008 - Obama)
DC-3 (2008 - Obama)
Pennsylvania-20 (Obama-2008)
Nevada-6 (Obama-2008)
New Hampshire-4 (Obama-2008)
*Ohio-18 (Obama-2008)
*Wisconsin-10 (2008 - Obama)

Safe Romney: 191
Texas-38 (2008 - McCain)
Tennessee-11 (2008- McCain)
Kentucky-8 (2008 - McCain)
Louisiana-8 (2008 - McCain)
Alabama-9 (2008 - McCain)
Mississippi-6 (2008 - McCain)
Alaska-3 (2008 - McCain)
Oklahoma-7 (2008 - McCain)
Kansas-6 (2008 - McCain)
Nebraska-5 (2008 - McCain)
North Dakota-3 (2008 - McCain)
South Dakota-3 (2008 - McCain)
Montana-3 (2008 - McCain)
Wyoming-3 (2008 - McCain)
Utah-6 (2008 - McCain)
Idaho-4 (2008 - McCain)
Georgia-16 (2008 - McCain)
West Virginia-5 (2008 - McCain)
South Carolina-9 (2008 - McCain)
Arizona-11 (2008-McCain)
Indiana-11 (Obama-2008)
Missouri-10 (Romney) (McCain-2008)

Tossup: 100
Florida-29 (Obama) (Obama-2008)
Colorado- 9 (Obama) (Obama-2008)
Iowa-6 (Obama) (Obama-2008)
North Carolina-15 (Romney) (Obama-2008)
Virginia-13 (Obama) (Obama-2008)

I'm crazy I know but I'm doing it. I'm moving Ohio and Wisconsin into the Obama column for now. Polling suggests it to me and early voting is going their way. I think Iowa belongs to Obama as well but will wait for more polling information. I think the last four states will be election day GOTV tossups. But it shouldn't matter if Obama wins all the states I've already given him. We'll see I guess.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Jason Bourne »

I will widely predict Virginia, Florida and Iowa to Romney. Ohio I think has moved to toss up. I most certainly could be way off here but what the hell.
_Brackite
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Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Brackite »

From Politico.com:

States - Obama - Romney - Obama - Romney
Colo. --- 47.8% --- 47.8% ----- 0 ----- 9
Fla. ---- 48.0% --- 49.0% ----- 0 ----- 29
Iowa --- 48.7% --- 47.7% ----- 6 ----- 0
Nev. --- 50.0% --- 47.6% ----- 6 ----- 0
N.H. --- 48.7% --- 47.7% ----- 4 ----- 0
N.C. --- 46.0% --- 49.3% ----- 0 ----- 15
Ohio --- 49.0% --- 47.7% ----- 18 ------ 0
Va. ----- 47.4% --- 47.9% ----- 0 ----- 13
Wis. --- 49.3% --- 47.0% ----- 10 ----- 0
Swing-State Votes ------ 44 ---- 66
Leaning/Likely State Votes -- 237 ---- 191
Total Overall Votes ------ 281 ---- 257
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_Bob Loblaw
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Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

It all depends on turnout. If the demographics of the electorate are roughly the same as in 2008, Obama is toast. If, however, there are more nonwhite voters, it will be damn close, with Obama likely pulling it off.

I have no idea what will happen. I just got finished reading an article insisting that voters were breaking "hard" for Romney, followed by another article saying exactly the opposite.

I don't believe the Romney camp's insistence that it's going to roll to victory (GW Bush's campaign said exactly the same thing in 2000), but I also don't believe the Obama campaign when they say they are extremely confident that they'll win. If they were, they wouldn't be putting money (and Bill Clinton) into Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. And the flailing "message" of the last couple of weeks from Obama shows some desperation. That said, Romney's Jeep ad shows the same desperation in Ohio.

I'm sticking with my earlier prediction: Obama 281, Romney 257
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Brackite
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Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Brackite »

Real Clear Politics now has Romney in Florida with 49.0%, and it now has Obama in Florida with 47.7%.
If Romney doesn't win the whole thing, at least I hope and pray that he wins Florida.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -1883.html
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_EAllusion
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Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _EAllusion »

Most of the sophisticated political forecasting sources I like are closing in on calling this one a lock for Obama. PEC gives it a 99% probability, for instance. This is counter-intuitive given the closeness of the race and the room for marginal uncertainty to move just enough of the numbers to swing the election still, so I'm torn between what very smart sources I trust predict and what my more naïve intuitions tell me.

Of the popular legit forecasting sites, Nate Silver's is the only one that is giving Romney a reasonable (about 25%) chance at victory. That's only as rare of landing a coin heads twice in a row, which isn't that rare at all. Ironically, conservative sources are absolutely trying to hammer his credibility because he is one of the few forecasting nerds that mainstream media sources take seriously and will invite on their shows. It interferes with their Ro-mentum narrative they're trying (and largely succeeding) to get the mainstream media to run with.

Here's my favorite example:

Nate Silver is faggy - > Romney landslide

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-far ... b_articles

Just the other day, I saw in the span of about an hour a reporter on CNN declare Ohio a tie based on a poll that showed +5 Obama while shortly after declaring Obama down and in deep trouble because he was down +5 in the Gallup likely voter tracking poll. I thought that was humorous. And for the Droopy, BCSpace types, that counts as "liberal media" because it isn't just out and out Republican propaganda. Silver's one of the few people that gets invited to rebut such stupid thinking.
_Bob Loblaw
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

As I wrote a month or so ago, Romney definitely closed the race after the debate, but $300 million of negative ads had done their damage, and I don't see him overcoming that. Of course, we could all be wrong.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Bond James Bond
_Emeritus
Posts: 2690
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:21 pm

Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Bond James Bond »

Brackite wrote:If Romney doesn't win the whole thing, at least I hope and pray that he wins Florida.


Why Florida specifically?
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Bond James Bond
_Emeritus
Posts: 2690
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:21 pm

Re: The 2012 Election

Post by _Bond James Bond »

EAllusion wrote:Of the popular legit forecasting sites, Nate Silver's is the only one that is giving Romney a reasonable (about 25%) chance at victory. That's only as rare of landing a coin heads twice in a row, which isn't that rare at all. Ironically, conservative sources are absolutely trying to hammer his credibility because he is one of the few forecasting nerds that mainstream media sources take seriously and will invite on their shows. It interferes with their Ro-mentum narrative they're trying (and largely succeeding) to get the mainstream media to run with.

Here's my favorite example:

Nate Silver is faggy - > Romney landslide

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-far ... b_articles

Just the other day, I saw in the span of about an hour a reporter on CNN declare Ohio a tie based on a poll that showed +5 Obama while shortly after declaring Obama down and in deep trouble because he was down +5 in the Gallup likely voter tracking poll. I thought that was humorous. And for the Droopy, BCSpace types, that counts as "liberal media" because it isn't just out and out Republican propaganda. Silver's one of the few people that gets invited to rebut such stupid thinking.


I saw this when it came out a couple of days ago. What a response to Silver's analysis: "He's a thin man of small stature with a soft voice."
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
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