Page 1 of 5

The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:06 pm
by _Brackite
The Recall Election in Wisconsin is just six days away.
Here is the latest news about the Recall Election that is going to take place in Wisconsin.

Next week's Wisconsin recall: a test drive of themes for Election 2012:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2 ... ction-2012

Why Wisconsin's recall election matters to Obama and Romney:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... nd-romney/

Wisconsin's Walker widens lead in recall election: poll:
http://news.yahoo.com/wisconsins-walker ... 16641.html


I do hope that GOP Governor Scott Walker ends up winning this recall election.

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:57 am
by _bcspace
The national Democrats have been downplaying this for several months now. The unions have been bloodied, hopefully next year to be crushed. Christie and Walker have been heroes in this regard.

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:06 am
by _moksha
bcspace wrote: The unions have been bloodied, hopefully next year to be crushed. Christie and Walker have been heroes in this regard.


Imagine the jubilation at the National Manufacturers Convention when 70 hour work weeks are reinstated. Don't imagine the insurance companies will be happy with ending health care plans, but hey, that's the wheels of regress.

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:19 pm
by _bcspace
Imagine the jubilation at the National Manufacturers Convention when 70 hour work weeks are reinstated.


Unions are more about self preservation and cronyism today.

Don't imagine the insurance companies will be happy with ending health care plans, but hey, that's the wheels of regress.


Health insurance benefits have nothing to do with employment or working conditions. Notice however, that when collective bargaining was ended in WI, the usual providers for each school district had to lower their prices since business was no longer guaranteed and the districts could now shop around. Insurance companies can now compete. That's why Walker is winning; the end of collective bargaining means more for less. It's an economic truism. Liberals have failed to learn this lesson and are doomed to repeat it time and again.

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:05 pm
by _EAllusion
Most voters don't vote based on things like that. Even when they say and think they do, they usually don't. Partisan leaning explains the vast majority of either candidate's numbers. Walker's specific numbers are best explained by the state being a natural +1 or so Democrat lean, economic conditions being so-so for his incumbency, a few % of voters opposing recalling anyone for political reasons, and Walker's domination of paid media.

Odd that BSCspace doesn't think Walker's team blanketing the airwaves with advertizements, enjoying something like an 8-1 spending advantage, has something to do with his polling. Because if it doesn't, why go through all the trouble and expense of doing that in the first place?

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:12 pm
by _EAllusion
Incidentally, I thought BSCspace thought Mormons couldn't be faithful and Democrats because Democrats oppose agency.

Stripping a body of workers of their bargaining rights is blatantly an act of coercion against personal liberty. It's a freedom of association issue. In a natural state, I have the ability to voluntarily align my interests with other workers and tell any prospective employer that I will not work for him or her unless he agrees to terms that my associates also forward. So I can say to Bill that I won't work for him unless he hires Jake and doesn't hire Suzy. Jake may say the same. The employer has the freedom to turn this down, of course, but then Jake and I walk together. Whether Bill can afford to let that happen is his business. That's liberty.

The traditional argument against this is anti-trust based. It will snowball into workers binding into a super-union that will break the economy through general striking. So the government must outlaw such behavior. (And it does.) Labor law is is a mish-mash of compromises over this. But if you believe that it is immoral for the government to coerce economic behavior - so much so that you hypocritically argue Democrats, but not Republicans, are in violation of your religion for doing so, then you've got no leg to stand on. Stripping collective bargaining rights is a naked example of doing just that.

The problem is that you don't believe in "liberty." That's become an empty slogan for you that is merely a placeholder for whatever it is you actually believe, even when that is its Orwellian opposite. You hate unions because unions traditionally have aligned with the American left, so you favor breaking them. That's it. Freedom has nothing to do with it. Just your raw, tribal desire to see your enemies broken before you.

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:37 pm
by _MCB
Odd that BSCspace doesn't think Walker's team blanketing the airwaves with advertizements, enjoying something like an 8-1 spending advantage, has something to do with his polling. Because if it doesn't, why go through all the trouble and expense of doing that in the first place?


You have to LIVE in Wisconsin to appreciate this. The TV stations are making a mint. It is really excessive.

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:30 pm
by _EAllusion
MCB wrote:
You have to LIVE in Wisconsin to appreciate this. The TV stations are making a mint. It is really excessive.
Walker has the financial luxury of having a whole series of advertisements with different messages aimed at different constituents all running at the same time with enough frequency that it's all but impossible to avoid any of them unless you live under a rock. In the Madison area, we get a heavy dose of the, "I don't support Walker, but I don't agree with recalling him for political disagreement" line of attack.

What I really love about this is Milwaukee is getting portrayed as a dystopian hell-hole because Barrett is Milwaukee's mayor and to play into anti-urban sentiment. It's like the anti-tourism board for Milwaukee.

"In Milwaukee, Christians are hunted for sport by flesh eating marauders. Please call Tom Barrett and let him know what you think of its."

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:59 pm
by _Brackite
Knowing how big of an economic and financial mess the State of California is in now, I completely understand why GOP Governor Scott Walker did what he did.



Bueno column: Don’t hand state over to unions

...

I know of a governor who wants to cut Medicaid programs, cut payments to healthcare providers, make state workers contribute more toward their pensions and raise their retirement age to 67.

The governor is a Democrat – Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn. After nearly a decade of Democratic leadership, Illinois is on the brink of insolvency. The state is facing a $2.7 billion budget deficit and has the nation’s most underfunded employee pension system, with a current liability of $83 billion. Future obligations are accumulating twice as fast as tax revenues.

Illinois’ economy is so bad it doesn’t even have money for school buses. The state Board of Education expects to either cut bus transportation or charge parents for the service.

California has the nation’s third-highest unemployment rate at 11 percent. It’s economy is flat and it also faces crippling public pension obligations.

Both states are notorious public union enablers, and are now suffering the consequences of too much taxing, spending and borrowing.

Gov. Quinn raised corporate taxes from 7.3 percent to 9.5 percent last year, and also raised the personal income tax rate from 3 percent to 5 percent. A family of four earning $60,000 had to wave goodbye to $1,040.

Illinois also rakes in a lot from residents via sales taxes – up to 11.5 percent between state, county and city surcharges. And Quinn hasn’t forgotten the “sin taxes.” He wants to raise the cigarette tax by $1 a pack.

Taxpayers take note: Democrats absolutely will tax the middle class once they’ve tapped out businesses and “the rich.” They’ll just quietly spread the tax hikes around and hope you don’t notice that you’re paying higher income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes and government fees for everything – including school buses for your kids.

Democrats will tax the middle class long before they’ll cut spending on their favorite special interest group: public unions. Public unions have massive amounts of money, and I hope no one’s naïve enough to think Democrats don’t curry favor with the rich.

At least when Republicans curry favor with businesses, their states get jobs in return. When Democrats curry favor with public unions, their states just get higher taxes.

Anyone who earns more than $48,000 in California pays 9.3 percent state income tax, “higher than what millionaires pay in 47 states,” says Joel Kotkin, a respected demographer at Chapman University in Orange, Calif.

Kotkin is a Democrat, but he told the Wall Street Journal in an April 20 interview that California’s “new regime” with its anti-business, high-tax policies, is waging “a progressive war on the middle class” in favor of “the very rich, the very poor, and the public employees.” Hollywood moguls can live with high taxes. So can the large welfare class that doesn’t pay taxes. But the over-taxed middle class, which already struggles to find jobs and afford homes, is being pushed out of the state.

Gov. Quinn, having run out of ways to squeeze the Illinois middle class, has reluctantly proposed that public workers contribute 3 percent more toward their pensions, retire at age 67 and accept fewer cost-of-living adjustments. Otherwise so much state revenue will go toward pension payments that there will be little left for other programs.

“Too bad!” bellowed the unions. “It is a clearly illegal attempt to solve the problem caused by past governors and the legislature solely on the backs of teachers, caregivers and other public workers,” scolded union spokesman Michael Carrigan

...


Link: http://www.wiscnews.com/news/opinion/ar ... 963f4.html

Re: The Wisconsin Recall Election

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:44 pm
by _EAllusion
Brackite wrote:Knowing how big of an economic and financial mess the State of California is in now, I completely understand why GOP Governor Scott Walker did what he did.


He did it as part of a multifaceted approach to undermine the financial and organizational support for Democrats. If that wasn't obvious form the other legislation passed at the same time, he's also caught on tape implying as much.

As far as the article goes, it has at least one egregious error. The major unions conceded cuts to their compensation under the Doyle administration in order to reconcile the upcoming budget. The concessions were fairly substantial, probably in fear of Walker. This was set to pass when two Democrats with their terms expiring mysteriously changed their vote at the last moment. Oddly, I know one was given high paying, low responsibility political appointment right when Walker took over. Strange that. I haven't followed the other recently. So, when Walker proposed to end collective bargaining rights (essentially) the unions conceded every single compensatory request, including deeper contributions than what were negotiated under Doyle. They opposed the loss of the ability to negotiate for job conditions, wage increases above inflation, union shop, etc. Walker refused to negotiate as the goal was killing the unions, not saving money in the short term.

So this statement is just a flat lie:

Sound familiar? It’s the same rhetoric union bosses blasted at Gov. Scott Walker when he asked state employees to contribute their fare share toward their job benefits.


From pretty much the outset the Walker administration has been trying to deflect the issue of bargaining rights - ending the meaningful existence of public sector unions - and imply (or in some cases flat state) he was opposed merely for requesting a small compensatory concession to save the state budget that those greedy unions could not stomach. My guess is the author of this article just uncritically accepted that rather than do any original research or, uh, being aware of the issue they are commenting on.