Afghanistan is Over

[Alf'Omega]

So after a couple weeks of hysteria, we were assured Biden's strategy was nothing short of incompetent. We were assured that the Taliban would prevent Americans from leaving and Biden wouldn't protect them. We were told from pundits on both sides that there would be zero chance of Biden being able to accomplish the evacuation by August 31 deadline. We were told American civilians would be killed because of Biden's inaction.

Well, even after all of that proved to be false, we're still seeing Left Wing media like CNN and HuffPo talk about this being a political disaster for Biden that will continue to haunt him.

What?

If I'm on Biden's team I'd be pointing out the fact that he orchestrated the largest evacuation in human history with more than 120,000 civilians being saved just within the past three weeks. He did this without losing a single US civilian to terrorist attacks, and this he did despite the mainstream media constantly interviewing partisan hacks and people on the ground who kept predicting the worst possible outcomes.

At the end of the day Biden kept his promise and got us out of Afghanistan. That's something Trump promised but never did. He also got more than 100,000 Afghans out of the country, much to the chagrin of Republicans who think they shouldn't be granted amnesty for helping us fight terrorism.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think it’s pretty sweet that we’re out of that quagmire.

- Doc

[Gunnar]

I agree that this is a success for Biden that deserves to be widely publicized and praised as such.

[honorentheos]

The OP title is unfortunate phrasing but reflective of a certain mindset I suppose.

More than 101,000 people have been evacuated in just two weeks. That's a marvel in and of itself. Biden has really stepped up to the challenge and performed. Five days to go and there are only about 500 American civilians still in Afghanistan.

I wouldn't take a victory lap over this even if there are upsides to the US ground troops leaving. It may be the end of an era, but declaring Afghanistan to be over probably makes sense to people who forgot about the Taliban being a thing until this last month and no one else.

Anyway. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

[Alf'Omega]

Of course FOX News responds with an article, Biden breaks his promise not to leave Americans behind."

Nowhere in the article does it say those Americans who ,"may" still be in the country don't want to leave.

[Res Ipsa]

The opening post title is unfortunate phrasing but reflective of a certain mindset I suppose.

More than 101,000 people have been evacuated in just two weeks. That's a marvel in and of itself. Biden has really stepped up to the challenge and performed. Five days to go and there are only about 500 American civilians still in Afghanistan.

I wouldn't take a victory lap over this even if there are upsides to the US ground troops leaving. It may be the end of an era, but declaring Afghanistan to be over probably makes sense to people who forgot about the Taliban being a thing until this last month and no one else.

Anyway. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

Yes. I’m glad we’re out, but nobody should be taking victory laps over Afghanistan. Let’s hope we learned some lessons this time around.

[honorentheos]

Of course FOX News responds with an article, Biden breaks his promise not to leave Americans behind."

Nowhere in the article does it say those Americans who ,"may" still be in the country don't want to leave.

There are between 100 and 200 American citizens who were trapped outside of Kabul and couldn't get out but want to do so. The US military was waiting for any who arrived up to the last minutes before flying out. Blinken is assuring anyone who asks that the US and Taliban are in talks to ensure that they will be able to get out if/when they make it to the airport.

From General McKenzie's briefing following the lift off of the last planes:

While the military evacuation is complete, the diplomatic mission to ensure additional U.S. citizens and eligible Afghans who want to leave continues. And I know that you have heard -- and I know that you're going to hear more about that from the State Department shortly.

...

GEN. MCKENZIE: So, we, no American citizens came out on the last, what we call, the joint tactical exfiltration; the last five jets to leave. We maintained the ability to bring them in up until immediately before departure, but we were not able to bring any Americans out. That activity ended probably about 12 hours before our exit, although we continue the outreach and would have been prepared to bring them on until the very last minute. But none of them made it to the airport, and were able to be -- and were able to be accommodated.

...

GEN. MCKENZIE: So, the military phase of this operation has ended. The diplomatic sequel to that will now begin. And I believe our Department of State is going to work very hard to allow any American citizens that are left -- and we think the citizens that were not brought out number in the low -- very low hundreds. I believe that we're going to -- we're going to be able to get those people out, and I think we're also going to negotiate very hard and very aggressively to get our other Afghan partners out.

The military phase is over, but our desire to bring these people out remains as intense as it was before. The weapons have just shifted, if you will, from the military realm to the diplomatic realm, and the Department of State will now take the lead on it.

...

So what has happened over the last 12 or 18 hours is we -- first of all, we were intent on maintaining the ability to bring out Americans and other -- and other Afghans as long as we could. So we kept that capability until just a few hours ago. And we were able to bring out some people earlier in the day, although, as I've noted earlier, we had to cut it off sometime before this operation began. But we were intent on maintaining that capability.

...

But I want to emphasis again that simply because we have left, that doesn't mean the opportunities for both Americans that are in Afghanistan that want to leave and Afghans who want to leave -- they will not be denied that opportunity. I think our Department of State's gonna work that very hard in the days and weeks ahead.

https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Transc ... jr-hold-a/

It's worth reading. It's good to think about the people that did their jobs in a deteriorating environment at a high, high level, and would have done so regardless of who was President. It's good to be mindful that the war wasn't a political matter to the people involved in it, and Afghanistan isn't over.

Anyway. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

[Chap]

... nobody should be taking victory laps over Afghanistan. Let’s hope we learned some lessons this time around.

Lessons to be learned?

Yes, rather a lot, and so far I think we have only begun to think about what needs to be learned.

Twenty years, vast sums of money spent and many lives lost, and the Taliban simply take over the minute the allies are gone. Let us not kid ourselves: that is not the way it was supposed to be.

Part of the lesson was, I think, hinted at in an article I read by a soldier who had served (if I recall correctly) in both Iraq and Afghanistan. In both countries he saw what appeared to him to be a pernicious system of contracting-out military and politico/social roles to private businesses whose key aim was not to further the state interests of the US and its allies (and certainly not of the Iraqi or Afghan people) but to extract as much money as they possibly can for their owners for the least work possible with the least possible risk. BECAUSE THEY ARE BUSINESSES, AND THAT IS WHAT BUSINESSES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. They appear to have made a great success of the profit generating thing: not so much of the things the government wanted them to do.

Would it not be a good idea to find out who it was who thought it would be a good and effective idea to spend government dollars this way? And perhaps to see whether there is any evidence that this was done for any reason other than to help political cronies and party donors to make as much out of the war as they possibly could?

[Alf'Omega]

There are between 100 and 200 American citizens who were trapped outside of Kabul and couldn't get out but want to do so.

That isn't true. You're doing precisely the same thing the media is. Blinken said the number of Americans is "likely closer to 100" and they have no idea who they all are, which is why they cannot even put an exact number to it. If they don't know who they are how can anyone know they're "trapped" and "want to leave"?

Consider this ambiguous headline from USAToday: "No option for us': US withdrawal marks terrifying moment for Americans, allies still in Afghanistan"

So are Americans saying "no option for us?" You have to read half way through the article to see it is an Afghan who made that remark. That same article details the issues faced with determining how many US citizens are still there:

The challenge is "there are long-time residents of Afghanistan who have American passports and who are trying to determine whether or not they wanted to leave," he said. "Many are dual-citizen Americans with deep roots and extended families in Afghanistan who’ve resided there for many years. For many, it’s a painful choice."

Closer to 100, and many of them haven't decided if they want to even leave. But that pertinent fact will never find itself in a headline. If there were literally "hundreds" of Americans struggling to leave (as several Right Wing folks have said) then one would think we'd be seeing all kinds of social media video feeds of them begging for help. Or at least direct family members claiming their loved ones want out but can't.

[honorentheos]

There are between 100 and 200 American citizens who were trapped outside of Kabul and couldn't get out but want to do so.

That isn't true. You're doing precisely the same thing the media is. Blinken said the number of Americans is "likely closer to 100" and they have no idea who they all are, which is why they cannot even put an exact number to it. If they don't know who they are how can anyone know they're "trapped" and "want to leave"?

It's not true there are American citizens who were not able to get out of country before the military pulled out? You don't think the numbers putting that as less than 200 but more than 100 are accurate? Because...? It's not comfortable to acknowledge perhaps?

You seem very invested in an alternative reality from the one both the military and the State Department are living in. Blinken, McKenzie, and others involved in the effort all have stated this.

Your partisanship is a cause for concern as it is causing you to reject facts in favor of "being right". Like the left version of Ajax.

I mean...viewtopic.php?p=36422#p36422