DiscussMormonism.com

A lot of people, myself among them, have been critical of Romney's refusal to give specifics about how to offset the 20% reduction in marginal tax rates he's proposing. As I said before, it's certainly possible to do so without affecting revenue, but the devil in the details, and Romney hasn't given any.

President Obama brought this up last night, but then I realized that I haven't heard anything specific from him, except letting the tax cuts on the wealthy expire, which isn't really a plan and doesn't generate enough revenue to make much of a difference. Romney repeatedly said that the next four years would be more of the same from the Administration. One would think that this was Obama's opportunity to outline what he would do in his next term. He didn't.

Setting aside my issues with this, the themes of both campaigns have remained pretty consistent:

Romney says what the president has done hasn't worked, so it's time for a change.

Obama says Romney is an extremist and a liar.

Both campaigns are essentially negative, which is depressing. But can someone explain what Obama would do differently in his second term that would create jobs and grow the economy? Citations would be nice.

Bob Loblaw wrote:I realized that I haven't heard anything specific from him, except letting the tax cuts on the wealthy expire, which isn't really a plan and doesn't generate enough revenue to make much of a difference.

It's certainly better than NO additional revenue. I would actually like to see all of the tax cuts expire, as they were supposed to do two years ago. It won't balance the budget, but it will do a whole lot better than more tax cuts.

Romney repeatedly said that the next four years would be more of the same from the Administration.

I have no problem with that. There isn't much a president can do that will make much of a difference, so more of the same is fine with me.

But can someone explain what Obama would do differently in his second term that would create jobs and grow the economy? Citations would be nice.

Well, for what it's worth, he has called on Congress to pass measures that he called "jobs bills," which the obstructionist Republicans refused to even consider. Since none of these were even tried during his first term, it's probably safe to assume the difference he would be hoping for is that they would actually pass in the next term.

But I believe we've had this conversation before. The economy will do what it's going to do, pretty much independent of what politicians try. Yes, they can fiddle around the edges and make small improvements, but not much. They can certainly affect taxes and budgets, but that's not the US economy and jobs.

Even with a compliant Congress, what could he do to create jobs in a serious way? What kinds of measures do you think would work? What are you looking for, anyway? Certainly not more tax cuts?

Bob Loblaw wrote:A lot of people, myself among them, have been critical of Romney's refusal to give specifics about how to offset the 20% reduction in marginal tax rates he's proposing. As I said before, it's certainly possible to do so without affecting revenue, but the devil in the details, and Romney hasn't given any.

I'm sorry, I didn't read your tax analysis. But I'm wondering whether you think it's possible given the details he has provided, which is that limits to deductions would be mainly on the upper incomes? Or as he said last night, "pick a number... $25,000" as a deduction ceiling. Do your numbers still work with 25K of deductions per filer?

But beyond that, surely you can't call his tax plan anything like a jobs/economy creation plan?

Bob Loblaw wrote:Both campaigns are essentially negative, which is depressing. But can someone explain what Obama would do differently in his second term that would create jobs and grow the economy? Citations would be nice.

The problem is that "Hope" and "Change" are great ideas on which to base a first campaign.

A second one, not so much.

I was just thinking about how excited all the Obama supporters were four years ago. The songs! The iconography! "Obama Girl"!

Now, not so much.

Staying the same sounds fine if the alternative is to screw things up. Vouchers won't feed grandma or send junior to college when Wall Street messes up again from lack of regulations. Unregulated capitalism will always destroy itself. It is amazing how much money you can take out of circulation when you eliminate all inheritance taxes.

cinepro wrote:

Bob Loblaw wrote:Both campaigns are essentially negative, which is depressing. But can someone explain what Obama would do differently in his second term that would create jobs and grow the economy? Citations would be nice.

The problem is that "Hope" and "Change" are great ideas on which to base a first campaign.

A second one, not so much.

I was just thinking about how excited all the Obama supporters were four years ago. The songs! The iconography! "Obama Girl"!

Now, not so much.

Just exactly what planet are you on anyway? Obama's campaign contributions have practically matched those from his first campaign. In fact I think I read that he broke his own record last month in campaign contributions, the bulk of which derive from small contributors of $200 and less (Romney's derive mostly from the wealthy and corporations because they want their tax cuts). And this, in the face of four years of Republican certainty that all any candidate has to do to win in 2012 is be someone other than Barack Obama. I remember quite vividly a friend of mine blathering on unitedliberty.org about how the American people quickly decided Obama was to be ousted, ever since the Republican takeover of Congress. Seriously, it is a marvel that Obama is even in this thing at all given the bombastic certitude from the Right about how America realizes they bought damaged goods.

As far as Obama having no deficit plan, it looks like someone has been watching too much FOX News.

Saw this a few minutes ago:

Romney’s Plan Revealed

A source in the Romney campaign today leaked an internal memo, entitled “Solutions Statement” designed to outline in broad terms a Romney administration’s approach to the nation’s problems. The source, who wished to remain anonymous, stated that voters do not yet understand Romney’s exciting vision for the future, but he hoped this document would help.

1. Unemployment: Each week we see more applications for unemployment benefits, and this cannot continue. A Romney administration would eliminate all unemployment benefits effective January 20, 2013, which would have the dual benefit of reducing dependency on the government and allow us to save the money previously spent tracking and paying for unemployment.

2. Deficit: We are spending too much money, and though the sequestration agreed upon in Congress is a step in the right direction, it comes at too high a price in decreased national security; currently, the sequestration would require cuts of $109 billion a year, divided evenly between defense and entitlements. A Romney administration would not accept such a drastic cut to our military, which would place all Americans in danger. Rather, we propose making 100% of the cuts to entitlements. We cannot allow our fiscal, economic, and military security to be held hostage by the greed and selfishness of people who feel they are “entitled” to other people’s money.

3. Education: Each year the federal government gives billions in grants and guaranteed loans to help families pay for college. The average student today graduates with more than $26,000 in debt, but 50% of graduates cannot find work, and many more are underemployed. This calamitous situation must be remedied. The Romney Student-Debt Elimination and Job Recovery Act would immediately cease all grant and loan programs, which would at a stroke reduce wasteful government spending and keep millions of young Americans out of the bondage of debt. Rather than working jobs they are overqualified for, young people would be better prepared to move into today’s job market. College graduates shouldn’t have to work minimum-wage jobs, so this program will reduce the number of graduates, reducing the unemployment rate for graduates.

4. Food Stamps: This misnamed program essentially puts a free gift card in the hands of people who haven’t earned it, so they can buy extravagant meals of caviar and Kobe beef. Ending this program immediately would encourage millions of Americans to take responsibility for themselves and learn to live on a budget within their means, just like everyone else. Lest food-stamp recipients feel unfairly singled out, the WIC program will also be phased out.

5. Same-Sex Marriage: Marriage is a sacred institution that has been unchanged in thousands of years of human history; it has always been between a man and a woman. except when it has been between a man and more than one woman. Governor Romney strongly believes that we do not need new laws about marriage, but that we need to enforce existing laws against sodomy and cohabitation.

6. Taxes: Governor Romney is concerned that too many Americans are not paying their fair share of the tax burden. Nearly 98% of federal income taxes are paid by the top 50% of income earners, while the bottom 50% pays slightly more than 2% of the total. This grievous inequity, besides being inherently unfair, has led to a situation in which half of Americans do not feel invested in their government and are more likely to shirk their responsibilities as voters and citizens to participate in our republican democracy. A Romney administration would broaden the tax burden by adjusting the tax code so that the bottom 50% pays a fair share: 50% of the total. This can be accomplished by reducing marginal rates above the $250,000 income level and eliminating deductions such as education and mortgage deductions, as well as eliminating the Earned Income Credit and the Child Tax Credit.

7. Abortion: Governor Romney opposes abortion, except in cases of rape, incest, or a threat to the mother’s life. With that in mind, he is proposing a new sub-cabinet-level board that will meet quarterly to approve applications for abortions. Congressman Todd Akin has agreed to head a task force to determine the makeup of the board, as well as its procedures, in order to ensure that requests are processed in a way that safeguards the lives of the unborn.

8. Foreign Policy: Around the world, millions are caught up in violent conflicts, from Colombia to Syria to Somalia. Governor Romney believes that the United States cannot be the world’s “policeman,” but should focus on protecting and defending our own states. With that in mind, Governor Romney proposes sending peace delegations to these regional hot spots to invite these countries to apply for statehood. These delegations will be accompanied by a sufficient armed force to protect them, which will of course require securing peace and law and order in each prospective state.

9. Media: Governor Romney believes in a free and unfettered media, which is why he will implement “fairness and standards” boards. These panels will seek to expand the boundaries of free speech by defining those boundaries strictly. A Romney administration will discourage pornography, inflammatory political speech, and violence in the media. By contrast, the administration will encourage the portrayal of wholesome values in the media, as well as promoting satire, such as this list.

Bob Loblaw wrote:Saw this a few minutes ago:

Romney’s Plan Revealed

*snip*

Did you write that???

just me wrote:Did you write that???

I'm not smart enough to write something like that. Just ask Droopy.