DiscussMormonism.com

Even though I knew Romney was going to lose, I'm still disappointed. As I said yesterday, I suspect that there are politicians in both parties who would be happy to let the "fiscal cliff" happen and then try to blame it on the other party. That scares the hell out of me.

Another four years will go by without any serious attempt to reduce our debt and deficits. That's just depressing. That was my biggest issue this campaign, and nothing is going to happen. I know, there was no guarantee that it would have happened with Romney, but Obama clearly has no interest in this issue. At best we can hope for a slow reduction in the deficit as a result of economic growth, but that's it.

Why shouldn't you feel disappointed? I would if the election had gone the other way.

Here's how I think about the deficit. Romney and Obama both planned to reduce it the same way: by economic growth. That's the assumption that underlies both of their plans. I've never been persuaded that the president controls most of the levers that make the economy better or worse.

On the fiscal cliff, I don't think there is anyone on the democratic side who wants to go over it. They understand what it means. I think there are a few on the republican side who do, simply because they want to prove that the federal government does not work. I think they will be shouted down by their own party.

Romney and Obama both planned to reduce it the same way: by economic growth.

Stone dead wrong. Catastrophically wrong. Obama no more wanted economic growth than he wants abundant, cheap energy, and he still wants neither. That is not a part of his ideology, his political strategy as learned and internalized in his youth, or his policy prescriptions.

Romney and Obama both planned to reduce it the same way: by economic growth

Nope. Obama merely hoped for that but all he has done and proposed are economy crushing tax increases. Besides the huge burden the Democrats have and will place on the economy, the economy itself is changing fundamentally and no Democrat understands economics enough to help us through that change.

The so called "fiscal-cliff" is nothing more than the medicine that our economy needs to avert long-term disaster (yes, including the expired tax cuts). We can either take it now, or take it later.

Based on what's happening in Greece, I say take it now.

You're still misapplying Greece I see....

We can either take it now, or take it later.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/25/opinion/h ... index.html

Let's all celebrate taxmageddon here on the board this January. I know my corporate bosses will be especially pissed since they depend on these tax returns to improve their sales each year when customers get them. We can all compare who got the worst return.

Kevin Graham wrote:You're still misapplying Greece I see....

I acknowledge the USA has a few more tools in its belt to help try and stave off the inevitable.

But the day will come when we have the same problems borrowing that Greece does, printing money and low interest rates aren't enough, rich people don't have enough money to tax and make up the difference, and cuts are the only option left. People will take to the streets, and we'll say "Hey, this is just like what happened in Greece!"

During the internet bubble and real estate bubbles, I was just as pessimistic and there were just as many people insisting "This is different", when it turned out it wasn't really different. The same rules applied as always. You can continue to argue that the USA is somehow "different" and our fate is different than that of other countries, but I disagree. In the end, spending more than you earn leads to the same place, whether you're a family, a business or a government.

But prove me wrong. Suppose Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras came to you and said "Mr. Graham, we are having fiscal difficulty. We have borrowed money that we can't pay back, no one want to lend us more money, and our people are rioting in the streets. The USA appears not to have such problems. What must we do to become more like the USA?"

What would you tell him? If the USA is "different" and won't have the same problems Greece does, then what does Greece need to do to become the same as the USA and also not have these problems?

Bob Loblaw wrote:Even though I knew Romney was going to lose, I'm still disappointed. As I said yesterday, I suspect that there are politicians in both parties who would be happy to let the "fiscal cliff" happen and then try to blame it on the other party. That scares the hell out of me.

Another four years will go by without any serious attempt to reduce our debt and deficits. That's just depressing. That was my biggest issue this campaign, and nothing is going to happen. I know, there was no guarantee that it would have happened with Romney, but Obama clearly has no interest in this issue. At best we can hope for a slow reduction in the deficit as a result of economic growth, but that's it.

I feel the same way. Given the states of the two parties, I very seriously doubt any real actions will be taken to solve the problems. I guess the real question is what happens if we go off the fiscal cliff. At this rate I guess we can just wait and see.

ETA: I guess some people use fiscal cliff to refer to the year end tax increases. I'm referring to the national debt.