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Fairy tale, or not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwg4DB-EeEA

I prefer looking at real numbers and stats, personally. Take out the vilification of an entire group of people.

The History of Taxes

just me wrote:I prefer looking at real numbers and stats, personally. Take out the vilification of an entire group of people.

The History of Taxes

I have a tough time when words like "fairness" and "inequality" are used in discussions of fiscal policy, as if appeal is being made to some universal standard. Everyone has a different idea about what is "fair", and no one actually wants "equality" (whatever that means) when it comes to the economy.

So if you think the "rich" should be taxed more, just say what you think the necessary rate is and argue for it.

Honestly, I'm more in favor of consumption taxes than income taxes anyway, since that seems much more "fair".

But I am mystified at the Republican angst over tax rates going back to the pre-Bush levels for >$250k earners. It was a temporary cut! Let's be glad the other rates aren't going back up too! No one should criticize them for allowing temporary cuts to go back up in a time of deficit spending.

Sure, get some spending cuts thrown into the deal while you can, but I'm not sure they've picked the right hill to die on.

cinepro wrote:Fairy tale, or not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwg4DB-EeEA

I think there is a lot of truth in that video; America prospered when there was a strong middle-class.

The video didn't capture everything--demographics and health care costs are other major reasons we have the problems we do.

Analytics wrote:

cinepro wrote:Fairy tale, or not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwg4DB-EeEA

I think there is a lot of truth in that video; America prospered when there was a strong middle-class.

The video didn't capture everything--demographics and health care costs are other major reasons we have the problems we do.

Assuming the video is looking at the 1950s-1960s as the "once upon a time", I wonder to what degree factors like the global economy and increased supply of workers through women's rights and desegregation have changed the opportunities for the middle class.

Also, this video doesn't explain how rich people paying taxes helps out with income disparity. I can see how it helps out the public employee unions, and how it can help public services. Is the idea that we tax corporations so much that they pay their managers less?

It's also a little weird to see a Union-produced video complaining about politicians being "bought".

Fairly tales: awesome
Fairies: way awesome

But I am mystified at the Republican angst over tax rates going back to the pre-Bush levels for >$250k earners. It was a temporary cut! Let's be glad the other rates aren't going back up too! No one should criticize them for allowing temporary cuts to go back up in a time of deficit spending

I said essentially the same thing several weeks ago and you didn't seem to agree with me.

cinepro wrote:Assuming the video is looking at the 1950s-1960s as the "once upon a time", I wonder to what degree factors like the global economy and increased supply of workers through women's rights and desegregation have changed the opportunities for the middle class.

The economy is complex; good things have happened and bad things have happened; there have been winners and losers.

cinepro wrote:Also, this video doesn't explain how rich people paying taxes helps out with income disparity.

It doesn't imply that raising taxes on the “rich” would solve all of our problems, but it would at least help fund the government.

cinepro wrote:I can see how it helps out the public employee unions, and how it can help public services. Is the idea that we tax corporations so much that they pay their managers less?

It didn’t say anything about corporate tax rates, did it? I thought the focus was squarely on individuals--masters-of-the-universe types (investment bankers, hedge fund managers, etc.)--who have gotten obscenely wealthy, paid low taxes on their obscene incomes, directly caused the financial crisis, and then got bailed out.

To me, the video was about America’s values. Do we want a well-funded government that employs middle-class workers to provide valuable services that make our communities nice? Is a progressive tax system fair? Is it possible that individuals pursuing obscene wealth can be bad for the economy (think LTCM)? Are such activities moral? Do we want to live in a country were the inequality resembles that of a third-world nation?

cinepro wrote:It's also a little weird to see a Union-produced video complaining about politicians being "bought".

Touché.

Emphasizing a point I alluded to in my previous post, the video leaves a lot out when explaining the causes of the current mess. Demographics and technology are huge challenges to the system—people are living a lot longer, but in obscenely expensive states of near-disability. But a lot of the kids can’t find a suitable job because the jobs have either been delegated to robots or China, etc.

But just because it doesn’t paint the whole picture doesn’t mean the picture it paints is false.

If I were looking for groups to call villains in this mess, “the baby boomer generation” would be the top villain on the list. As a generation, they’ve been extremely greedy and have made awful decisions for the country. But the masters-of-the-universe are also high on the list.

zeezrom wrote:Fairly tales: awesome
Fairies: way awesome

Precicely my point!

Analytics wrote:It didn’t say anything about corporate tax rates, did it? I thought the focus was squarely on individuals--masters-of-the-universe types (investment bankers, hedge fund managers, etc.)--who have gotten obscenely wealthy, paid low taxes on their obscene incomes, directly caused the financial crisis, and then got bailed out.

Their solution is presented at 7:40: "Tax the Rich" - "Tax Corporations"

I actually appreciate the video for it's clarity. It presents the worldview of a powerful public employee union for all to see. If people want to support that worldview, I can't say they were tricked. It's set out right there, for all to see.

Hopefully the mayors of San Jose, Detroit, Harrisburg, San Bernardino, and Vallejo can watch it so they can understand why their cities are bankrupt. Because I've heard their explanations and according to the video, they were way off!