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Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:33 am
by _bcspace
Last month, PolitiFact selected its "Lie of the Year." Given PolitiFact's dubious record of singling out Republicans for lying far more often then Democrats, you probably could have guessed the winner of this particular sweepstakes was a Mitt Romney campaign ad:

It was a lie told in the critical state of Ohio in the final days of a close campaign -- that Jeep was moving its U.S. production to China. It originated with a conservative blogger, who twisted an accurate news story into a falsehood. Then it picked up steam when the Drudge Report ran with it. Even though Jeep's parent company gave a quick and clear denial, Mitt Romney repeated it and his campaign turned it into a TV ad.

And they stood by the claim, even as the media and the public expressed collective outrage against something so obviously false.

"Public expressed collective outrage"? That's essentially wishcasting on the part of PolitiFact, nor are they accurately representing what Mitt Romney said in the ad. In fact, here's PolitiFact's original "fact check" on the matter:

[Mitt Romney] Says Barack Obama "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China" at the cost of American jobs.

Ok. Now here's what the Reuters reported earlier this week:

Fiat (FIA.MI) and its U.S. unit Chrysler expect to roll out at least 100,000 Jeeps in China when production starts in 2014 as they seek to catch up with rivals in the world's biggest car market. ...

"We expect production of around 100,000 Jeeps per year which is expandable to 200,000," [Chrysler CEO Sergio] Marchionne, who is also CEO of Chrysler, said on the sidelines of a conference, adding production could start in 18 months.

So, yes, it's confirmed that Jeep will be producing cars in China. According to the Toledo Blade last November:

Currently, Jeeps sell in more than 120 countries around the world, including China. They're nearly all built in factories in the United States.

By expanding Jeep production to China, instead of increasing Jeep production in the U.S., it's safe to say the Jeep (or more properly, Fiat, which now owns Chrysler) is choosing to create more jobs overseas instead of in America where taxpayers bailed the company out.

Now one could argue—and I suspect many pro-free trade, pro-globalization conservatives would make this argument—that expanding production overseas is good for Jeep, and what's good for Jeep in the long-run is ultimately good for the jobs they sustain in the U.S. job market. And if you dig deep into the PolitiFact ruling, that's their essential objection to Mitt Romney's ad: It implies that it would be better for Jeep to create more jobs in the U.S. in the short-term, instead of expanding overseas production. So in the end, PolitiFact's beef with the Romney ad was an entirely argumentative disagreement about what course of action Jeep should take, not a factual objection to Romney's true statement that Jeep was going to start building cars in China. However, disagreeing about the implications of manufacturing Jeeps in China doesn't justify calling Romney a liar for accurately stating Jeeps would be manufactured in China[/color[color=#0000FF]]. PolitiFact didn't even dispute that, and even conceded the "Lie of the Year" was built on a "grain of truth." Rather, PolitiFact explicitly argued producing Jeeps in China is a good thing:

The production of cars in China is a sign of Chrysler's growing strength in overseas markets. It would like to build Jeeps in China to sell in China. It is not outsourcing American auto jobs.

Further, PolitiFact criticized the Romney ad for something it didn't say. Romney's ad never said Jeep was "outsourcing" existing jobs. Again, a fair reading of the ad would be that it implied that Jeep was choosing to create new jobs overseas rather than in the U.S. And if we're going to get technical, what PolitiFact reported about Jeep wasn't accurate. Here's PolitiFact quoting a Chrysler spokesman in their "Lie of the Year" ruling:

"Let’s set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China," Ranieri wrote, adding, "A careful and unbiased reading of the Bloomberg take would have saved unnecessary fantasies and extravagant comments."

But that turns out not to be entirely true! As the Detroit News reported earlier this week:

[Chrysler CEO Sergio] Marchionne said he will keep "the pillar cars of the Jeep (brand) in the United States. Wrangler is one. The Grand Cherokee is another. These are things that need to be protected because they represent the best and the essence of Jeep. If you tell me I cannot make a Patriot somewhere else, I might as well go out of the market."

To recap, Jeep Patriots—oh irony, you capricious sprite!—that were heretofore exclusively produced in America and sold overseas are now going to be made and sold overseas. So there is one Jeep model that is in fact shifting production "out of North America to China," contrary to what Jeep's spokesman asserted at the time.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/whoops-politifacts-lie-year-turns-out-be-true_696223.html


While this is only one of many examples, one can safely discount any assertion made by Democrats and other Regressives as a lie or misleading at best.

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:38 am
by _Kevin Graham
So says the notorious and laughably untrustworthy weekly standard, via our resident troll for Right Wing fanaticism bcspace...

'nuff said.

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:31 pm
by _Droopy
Kevin Graham wrote:So says the notorious and laughably untrustworthy weekly standard, via our resident troll for Right Wing fanaticism bcspace...

'nuff said.



The least educated, least read, least knowledgeable, and least intellectually qualified to comment of pretty much anything takes aim at facts, evidence, and that stubborn, irritating phenomena, reality.

The perennial struggle of the "liberal."

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:46 pm
by _Kevin Graham
Assertion isn't synonymous with "facts and evidence." Of course having a formal education helps with that understanding.

Tell us again how you don't need a formal education from the Liberal academia, because you can educate yourself by reading Right Wing think tanks?

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:25 pm
by _palerobber
Romney who?

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:24 am
by _krose
Here is what Romney said about Jeep:

"I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China."

Feel free to point out how that statement is true.

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:41 am
by _ldsfaqs
krose wrote:Here is what Romney said about Jeep:

"I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China."

Feel free to point out how that statement is true.


First it says they were "thinking", how do you know they weren't "thinking" that?

Second, while it may be true they're not going to move "all" to China, they ARE moving some, thus his statement about some jobs being lost because they for example are moving an entire "model" to China is in fact TRUE.

So, in conclusion, it wasn't a "perfect" statement, but it wasn't actually a lie either, especially a "lie of the year". They in fact ARE moving production to China, and no, not just "expanding", they are MOVING it.

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:00 am
by _Kevin Graham
ldsfaqs wrote:
First it says they were "thinking", how do you know they weren't "thinking" that?


First, you're an idiot. According to this line of defense, we should just assert whatever we want about what someone else is thinking and get away with it (i.e. "I heard a story that Mitt Romney was thinking to legalize polygamy"). Second, he said this is what some "story" said, which tells us all we need to know about hos irresponsible this guy is. He's the same despicable idiot who immediately went on the air claiming Obama apologize for "American values" after the tragedy in Benghazi.

Second, while it may be true they're not going to move "all" to China, they ARE moving some, thus his statement about some jobs being lost because they for example are moving an entire "model" to China is in fact TRUE.


No, there won't be "jobs lost" no matter how you try to spin it. The "production" proposed for China would be only for the Chinese market. It isn't very profitable to build them in the USA and pay the costs of exporting them there, especially with increased tariffs by Chinese government. So it is a flat out lie to suggest this move would costs American jobs.

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:48 pm
by _beastie
ldsfaqs wrote:
First it says they were "thinking", how do you know they weren't "thinking" that?

Second, while it may be true they're not going to move "all" to China, they ARE moving some, thus his statement about some jobs being lost because they for example are moving an entire "model" to China is in fact TRUE.

So, in conclusion, it wasn't a "perfect" statement, but it wasn't actually a lie either, especially a "lie of the year". They in fact ARE moving production to China, and no, not just "expanding", they are MOVING it.


How convenient. We were just talking about low-information voters.

We know they weren't thinking that, because they rebuked Romney's statement. For a private company to feel forced to make such a rebuttal to a presidential candidate's ad is quite unusual.

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/201 ... ergio.html

Re: Romney: "Lie of the Year" turns out to be true

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:11 pm
by _krose
ldsfaqs wrote:First it says they were "thinking", how do you know they weren't "thinking" that?

Ah, a new standard. Great. By the way, I happen to know that Mitt Romney, if elected, was planning to modify the food stamp program to only cover cat food. Prove me wrong.

Second, while it may be true they're not going to move "all" to China, they ARE moving some, thus his statement about some jobs being lost because they for example are moving an entire "model" to China is in fact TRUE.

Are you saying that all Jeep Patriot models will now be made in China, with none made in the US? I don't believe that's the case, and if it is not, you can't use the word "move," and it's not a loss of US jobs.

So, in conclusion, it wasn't a "perfect" statement, but it wasn't actually a lie either, especially a "lie of the year".

The reason it was called the "lie of the year" was not because it was so pernicious or outrageous. Romney told several that were much worse. The reason was because of the effect it had on the election. It pretty much guaranteed he would lose Ohio, and with it any chance at the White House.