Lectures on Faith

[_subgenius]

...From the School of the Prophets at Kirtland, Ohio.
compiled by N.B. Lundwall

A good and concise read. Clear on the topic and well supported. I found lecture #2 to be a bit tedious but necessary.
A compact book of only 96 pages but perhaps the most insightful book, second only to the Book of Mormon.

Clearly this work is a contradiction to the often misguided perception of what Faith means to an atheist, and thus affirms their rather amusing position of not believing in something for which they have erroneous knowledge.

[_RockSlider]

I also love this book. Of course it is the original "doctrine" of the D&C, but for some reason (conflicting doctrine) it was removed from the D&C, thus the current D&C is really just C

[_subgenius]

I also love this book. Of course it is the original "doctrine" of the D&C, but for some reason (conflicting doctrine) it was removed from the D&C, thus the current D&C is really just C

interesting. I was not aware of its removal. What are the contentious points within "Lectures"? Because i can say that i rely on this book quite heavily, and will likely not discard it.

[_just me]

In LoF God the Father does not have a body. The Holy Ghost is the mind of God, not a personage. Jesus is the only embodied God.

[_RockSlider]

In LoF God the Father does not have a body. The Holy Ghost is the mind of God, not a personage. Jesus is the only embodied God.

I believe just me is correct the conflict was over the nature of God.

A bit more subtle is that faith is presented differently than the standard Book of Mormon definition of faith. LOF holding that it is the cause of all action, and that the result of real faith is a full expectation of results per that which faith is exercised on.

None of this unseen/unknown but believe anyway stuff

[_honorentheos]

The Lectures on Faith/D&C 130

In the fall of 1834, an appointed committee that included Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, and Oliver Cowdery agreed that a written treatise on Faith be included in a compilation of revelations and doctrine of the church. This treatise, known as The Lectures on Faith, was originally prepared for intruction at the School of the Prophets and, while of disputed authorship it was noted by Joseph Smith's biographer in his diary that Joseph was busily engaged in making preparations for the instruction of Elders and also, following the recommendation of the committee to add the LoF to the work, is noted to have been busy in compiling work for inclusion. It seems highly likely that Joseph knew the content of the LoF if he himself was not the actual author. This text made up the doctrine portion of the 1835 Doctrine and Convenants, and was accepted by the church by vote in August 1835 according to The History of the Church.

Of note in the above link is the process by which each quorum and body of the priesthood and church was given testimony of the book's truthfulness after which it was unanimously sustained as the true doctrine and covenants of the faith.

In 1921, the Lectures on Faith were removed from the Doctrine and Convenants by the will of a new committee but not presented to the church for sustaining vote. In part this was to remove confusion and contradiction between the Lecture's description of the Godhead and what became Section 130 of the D&C, originally added in 1876. The conflicting texts are as follows:

Lectures on Faith, Lecture Fifth -
2. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme, power over all things, by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible, whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space. They are the Father and the Son—the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness, the Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or rather man was formed after his likeness and in his image; he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father, possessing all the fullness of the Father, or the same fullness with the Father; being begotten of him, and ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh, and descended in suffering below that which man can suffer; or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be.
...

How many personages are there in the Godhead? Two: the Father and Son.
...

What is the Father? He is a personage of glory and of power.
...

What is the Son? First, he is a personage of tabernacle.
...

Do the Father and the Son possess the same mind? They do....What is this mind? The Holy Spirit. Do the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute the Godhead? They do.

Section 130, prepared by Orson Pratt from multiple accounts of a sermon preached by Joseph Smith in April 1843, reads as follows:

D&C 130:22 - 23
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

[_RockSlider]

honorentheos,

Thank you for that clarification.

[_subgenius]

thank you honorentheos.
I find this a most interesting issue as it does not seem black-and-white to me at this point.
However, I am inclined to defer to LoF.

What if any influence did Heber J. Grant have on this rather significant edit (ie. given his meek and meager beginnings and eventual rise to fountainhead)? Was this a move from him to "modernize" the church? Was his tenure not dominated by the temporal aspects of doctrine?

[_honorentheos]

I don't know the answer to that question, subgenius. But you may be interested in reading this to see if it gets at your question:

http://contentdm.lib.BYU.edu/cdm/ref/collection/MTAF/id/31813

It's a master's thesis regarding the Doctrine and Covenants and contains some insightful historic information.

Navigating within the document isn't intuitive, in my opinion. There is a table of contents with links to each page available to the right of the document window. I found it easiest to go to the bottom of the window, select the printable pdf and download it to my computer. Otherwise, you have to click on the link for each page as you go.

Information on Section 130 and the Lectures on Faith start on page 77 where the process by which the Book of Commandments was accepted is outlined including the LoF. Page 343 on includes information on their removal in the 1921 edition of the D&C. Elders Joseph F. Smith and Talmage are noted in the document as recommending removal. No mention of Heber J. Grant is made as I recall.

Hope you enjoy it.

[_subgenius]

I don't know the answer to that question, subgenius. But you may be interested in reading this to see if it gets at your question:

http://contentdm.lib.BYU.edu/cdm/ref/collection/MTAF/id/31813

It's a master's thesis regarding the Doctrine and Covenants and contains some insightful historic information.

Navigating within the document isn't intuitive, in my opinion. There is a table of contents with links to each page available to the right of the document window. I found it easiest to go to the bottom of the window, select the printable pdf and download it to my computer. Otherwise, you have to click on the link for each page as you go.

Information on Section 130 and the Lectures on Faith start on page 77 where the process by which the Book of Commandments was accepted is outlined including the LoF. Page 343 on includes information on their removal in the 1921 edition of the D&C. Elders Joseph F. Smith and Talmage are noted in the document as recommending removal. No mention of Heber J. Grant is made as I recall.

Hope you enjoy it.