DiscussMormonism.com

By 2050—earlier, probably—all real knowledge of Oldspeak will have disappeared. The whole literature of the past will have been destroyed. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Byron—they'll exist only in Newspeak versions, not merely changed into something different, but actually contradictory of what they used to be. Even the literature of the Party will change. Even the slogans will change. How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished? The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think.

Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.

An observation.

honorentheos wrote:Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.

Playing 'follow the leader" is the easiest way to live. No stress. No annoying self doubts. I sometimes wish I could do that.

Quasimodo wrote:

honorentheos wrote:Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.

Playing 'follow the leader" is the easiest way to live. No stress. No annoying self doubts. I sometimes wish I could do that.

Sounds like the mainstream media's coverage of Obama.

richardMdBorn wrote:Sounds like the mainstream media's coverage of Obama.

Nope, more along the lines of LDS doctrine.

When the Prophet speaks, the thinking is done.

Quasimodo wrote:

honorentheos wrote:Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.

Playing 'follow the leader" is the easiest way to live. No stress. No annoying self doubts. I sometimes wish I could do that.

The OP title is taken from the words of Syme, one of the characters in the book 1984, as you know I'm sure. It came to mind while reading different things on the net today, including here. It got me thinking about orthodoxy in it's many forms, not just in Mormonism.

I find the quote about orthodoxy being unconsciousness insightful for the reasons you point out, Quasimodo. I don't think we lose that desire for acceptance, ease of living, or to substitute for a perceived lack of the quiet self-confidence of the master in their craft just because we leave Mormonism behind. Or, for those who are nevermo's, were never part of it. There is something in human nature that gnaws at us when we hear someone we respect criticize someone else and wonder, "Do I do that, too?" and perhaps change our behaviour accordingly. Orthodoxy isn't forced on a person like in A Clockwork Orange. It's invited in, like a vampire. And it is a vampire of sorts.

Orthodoxy is unconsciousness; it's the antithesis of mindfulness.

I think that also explains why even Syme ends up out of the good graces of Big Brother. His love wasn't in the absorbing will of Big Brother, but in the creative expression of himself he found through Big Brother.

One of these days, thought Winston with sudden deep conviction, Syme will be vaporized. He is too intelligent. He sees too clearly and speaks too plainly. The Party does not like such people. One day he will disappear. It is written in his face.

We see it in our LDS brothers and sisters who love to dive deep into the scriptures. We see it in work situations. Every profession has a form of orthodoxy. Every hobbyist group does, every circle has an inner circle. Some of the most dogmatic people I know aren't affiliated with religion. Mountain biker dogma is harsh and woe to the person who fails to conform, for example. Show me an engineer who doesn't wear polo’s and khaki's and I'll show you a person walking to the beat of their own drum.

Anyway, it was a thought that struck me today. It's sad to see some people over self-editing and losing their self-expression in the process.

An observation.

A perfect illustration of the modern day Liberal in his comfortable nanny state cocoon.

honorentheos wrote:We see it in our LDS brothers and sisters who love to dive deep into the scriptures. We see it in work situations. Every profession has a form of orthodoxy. Every hobbyist group does, every circle has an inner circle. Some of the most dogmatic people I know aren't affiliated with religion. Mountain biker dogma is harsh and woe to the person who fails to conform, for example. Show me an engineer who doesn't wear polo’s and khaki's and I'll show you a person walking to the beat of their own drum.

Anyway, it was a thought that struck me today. It's sad to see some people over self-editing and losing their self-expression in the process.

I think that conforming to styles and beliefs in a group one belongs to may be instinctual. It might take a learned (and healthy) disrespect for authority to go beyond the 'norms' and follow your own drum beat. Maybe that's what makes a good artist.

I remember being very concerned that the clothes I wore to school passed the fashion test (a good argument in favor of school uniforms).

There are many examples of this outside religion. I have an acquaintance that spent most of his life in the military. He's retired from that now, but he misses it. Everything was laid out for him. Life was easy. If he had any doubts about decisions he needed to make he could just follow the 'manual'. Always safe. Now he has to be concerned with making decisions without guidance. He doesn't care for it.

Quasimodo wrote:

richardMdBorn wrote:Sounds like the mainstream media's coverage of Obama.

Nope, more along the lines of LDS doctrine.

When the Prophet speaks, the thinking is done.

The idiotic things members of the mainstream media say about leftists like Obama are examples of a slobbering love affair.

The idiotic things members of the mainstream media say about leftists like Obama are examples of a slobbering love affair.

When contrasted and compared to the hideous, ignorant things said about him by the bigoted Right Wing media, well then yeah, I could see how you'd think that.

Same way you actually believe the "Liberal media" goes out of its way to ignore things by not reporting on idiotic conspiracy theories and manufactured scandals by the Right, when it reality it is simply practicing responsible journalism.

Break out of your bubble one day and see the light.

As it is, Obama receives plenty criticism from CNN and MSNBC, contrary to your perceptions. They just don't take it to extremes like FOX and talk radio or any number of Right Wing media outlets.

The irony of seeing the acronym mainstream media used in a thread based on Newspeak is hard to overlook.