Addressing the income gap problem.

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_MeDotOrg
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Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _MeDotOrg »

Addressing the income gap problem presupposes there is an income gap problem, but there is a lot of empirical evidence that points to income gap as being a significant part of the economic problems facing the citizens of this country.

Timothy Noah wrote:Most recent discussion about economic inequality in the United States has focused on the top 1 percent of the nation’s income distribution, a group whose incomes average $1 million (with a bottom threshold of about $367,000). “We are the 99 percent,” declared the Occupy protesters, unexpectedly popularizing research findings by two economists, Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez, that had previously drawn attention mainly from academics. But the gap between the 1 percent and the 99 percent is only half the story.

Granted, it’s an important half. Since 1979, the one-percenters have doubled their share of the nation’s collective income from about 10 percent to about 20 percent. And between 2009, when the Great Recession ended, and 2011, the one-percenters saw their average income rise by 11 percent even as the 99-percenters saw theirs fall slightly. Some recovery!

This dismal litany invites the conclusion that if we would just put a tight enough choke chain on the 1 percent, then we’d solve the problem of income inequality. But alas, that isn’t true, because it wouldn’t address the other half of the story: the rise of the educated class.

Since 1979 the income gap between people with college or graduate degrees and people whose education ended in high school has grown. Broadly speaking, this is a gap between working-class families in the middle 20 percent (with incomes roughly between $39,000 and $62,000) and affluent-to-rich families (say, the top 10 percent, with incomes exceeding $111,000). This skills-based gap is the inequality most Americans see in their everyday lives.

Conservatives don’t typically like to talk about income inequality. It stirs up uncomfortable questions about economic fairness. (That’s why as a candidate Mitt Romney told a TV interviewer that inequality was best discussed in “quiet rooms.”) On those rare occasions when conservatives do bring it up, it’s the skills-based gap that usually draws their attention, because it offers an opportunity to criticize our government-run system of public education and especially teachers’ unions.

Liberals resist talking about the skills-based gap because they don’t want to tell the working classes that they’re losing ground because they didn’t study hard enough. Liberals prefer to focus on the 1 percent-based gap. Conceiving of inequality as something caused by the very richest people has obvious political appeal, especially since (by definition) nearly all of us belong to the 99 percent. There’s also a pleasing simplicity to the causes of the growing gap between the 1 and the 99. There are only two, and both are familiar liberal targets: the rise of a deregulated financial sector and the erosion of accountability in compensating top executives outside finance. (The cohort most reflective of these trends is actually the top 0.1 percent, who make $1.6 million or more, but let’s not quibble.)

Both halves of the inequality story should command our attention, because both represent a dramatic reversal of economic trends that prevailed in the United States for most of the 20th century. From the 1930s through the 1970s the 1 percent saw its share of national income decline, while the “college premium” either fell or followed no clear up-or-down pattern over time.

At least some of the tools to restore these more egalitarian trends shouldn’t be divisive ideologically. Liberals and conservatives both recognize the benefits of preschool education, which President Obama has proposed making universally available. I’ve never met an affluent 4-year-old who wasn’t enrolled in preschool, but nationwide about one-third of kids that age aren’t.

Another reform both conservatives and liberals have supported — though at different times — is withholding federal aid from colleges and universities that can’t control tuition increases. Mr. Obama proposed it in his last two State of the Union addresses; House Speaker John A. Boehner was a sponsor of a bill to do the same in 2003.

THERE is also more bipartisan support than you might suppose for restricting some of the Wall Street excesses that enrich the 1 percent. The impetus to do so isn’t inequality so much as fear that an out-of-control banking sector will once again create economic crisis and compel Congress to bail out the big banks. Congressional Republicans have been blocking proper implementation of the Dodd-Frank financial reforms, but a growing chorus of conservative voices, including the columnist George F. Will, the former Utah governor Jon M. Huntsman Jr. and Richard W. Fisher, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, favor breaking up the big banks. Senators David Vitter, Republican of Louisiana, and Sherrod Brown, Democrat of Ohio, have sponsored a bill to require the largest banks to hold more capital reserves, or become smaller.

One reason the left plays down the growing skills-based gap is that it accepts at face value the conservative claim that educational failure is its root cause. But the decline of labor unions is just as important. At one time union membership was highly effective at reducing or eliminating the wage gap between college and high school graduates. That’s much less true today. Only about 7 percent of the private-sector labor force is covered by union contracts, about the same proportion as before the New Deal. Six decades ago it was nearly 40 percent.

The decline of labor unions is what connects the skills-based gap to the 1 percent-based gap. Although conservatives often insist that the 1 percent’s richesse doesn’t come out of the pockets of the 99 percent, that assertion ignores the fact that labor’s share of gross domestic product is shrinking while capital’s share is growing. Since 1979, except for a brief period during the tech boom of the late 1990s, labor’s share of corporate income has fallen. Pension funds have blurred somewhat the venerable distinction between capital and labor. But that’s easy to exaggerate, since only about one-sixth of all households own stocks whose value exceeds $7,000. According to the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute, the G.D.P. shift from labor to capital explains fully one-third of the 1 percent’s run-up in its share of national income. It couldn’t have happened if private-sector unionism had remained strong.

Reviving labor unions is, sadly, anathema to the right; even many mainstream liberals resist the idea. But if economic growth depends on rewarding effort, we should all worry that the middle classes aren’t getting pay increases commensurate with the wealth they create for their bosses. Bosses aren’t going to fix this problem. That’s the job of unions, and finding ways to rebuild them is liberalism’s most challenging task. A bipartisan effort to revive the labor movement is hardly likely, but halting inequality’s growth will depend, at the very least, on liberals and conservatives better understanding each other’s definition of where the problem lies.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/the-1-percent-are-only-half-the-problem/#postComment
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_subgenius
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _subgenius »

MeDotOrg wrote:...(snip)...It couldn’t have happened if private-sector unionism had remained strong.

Reviving labor unions is, sadly, anathema to the right; even many mainstream liberals resist the idea. But if economic growth depends on rewarding effort, we should all worry that the middle classes aren’t getting pay increases commensurate with the wealth they create for their bosses. Bosses aren’t going to fix this problem. That’s the job of unions, and finding ways to rebuild them is liberalism’s most challenging task. A bipartisan effort to revive the labor movement is hardly likely, but halting inequality’s growth will depend, at the very least, on liberals and conservatives better understanding each other’s definition of where the problem lies.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/the-1-percent-are-only-half-the-problem/#postComment

Unions? out-sourcing one's self-empowerment to a Union is hardly the solution...the true offense to the "gap' is the individual...just as the individual was the power for the rich, it must be the power for the poor. Self reliance and self actualization are the only cures available...remedies from the past will regress not only the labor environment but the commerce environment. The cottage industry not the industrial one.
Unions, even in an ideal form, in today's world are part of the problem not the solution. They reinforce the divide and perpetuate the idea of management distinct from labor...owner from worker.
To see Unions gasping their last breaths is not "sad", but welcoming...it is time to "move on". :wink:
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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_cinepro
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _cinepro »

Unions aren't some theoretical entity that is being proposed. We live in a world with unions. We know what they do, how they act, and what their effect is on businesses and economies.

So can anyone who supports the ideas expressed in that editorial point to companies or regions in the United States, or anywhere else on this planet, that show this idea working?
_Brackite
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _Brackite »

cinepro wrote:Unions aren't some theoretical entity that is being proposed. We live in a world with unions. We know what they do, how they act, and what their effect is on businesses and economies.

So can anyone who supports the ideas expressed in that editorial point to companies or regions in the United States, or anywhere else on this planet, that show this idea working?


California?
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_MeDotOrg
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _MeDotOrg »

Bangladesh was a solid 'right to work' country. This past Monday the government finally allowed garment workers to form Trade Unions without the prior permission of factory owners.

For 1,127 garment workers who died in a building collapse last month, the legislation came too late.

Image

People form unions when their legitimate grievances are not addressed by management.

Can Unions become recalcitrant and corrupt? Yes, just like corporations. In an ideal world the interests of workers and management would be seamlessly aligned. They would both work towards long term viability while making profit in the short term. Easier said than done, I know.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
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"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
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_EAllusion
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _EAllusion »

cinepro wrote:Unions aren't some theoretical entity that is being proposed. We live in a world with unions. We know what they do, how they act, and what their effect is on businesses and economies.

So can anyone who supports the ideas expressed in that editorial point to companies or regions in the United States, or anywhere else on this planet, that show this idea working?

Depends on what you mean by "this idea." If it is the central theme of the article in question, then yes, it's quite demonstrable that members of labor unions share a greater portion of corporate profits and enjoy, on average, better peripheral working conditions. If, for instance, retail sales were unionized the income gap in the US would be less than it currently is. Collective bargaining power is a real thing and there's a reason why most members of unions like being in a union and why non-unionized corporations have HR dedicated to convincing its workforce that unions are bad for them. If by "this idea" you have a broader notion in mind, perhaps that more widespread labor unions would be better for the overall economic health of the nation, then that's not an easily answered question. You can't just take things like increased consumer spending power of the working class and less nimble company responses to changing economic conditions, put them on a scale, and see which weighs more.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Unions? out-sourcing one's self-empowerment to a Union is hardly the solution...


Tell that to the baby-boomers who still remember the glory days of old.

In reality globalization is just as much to blame for this.
_subgenius
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _subgenius »

Kevin Graham wrote:
Unions? out-sourcing one's self-empowerment to a Union is hardly the solution...


Tell that to the baby-boomers who still remember the glory days of old.

In reality globalization is just as much to blame for this.

what glory days?
the "blame" rests solely with the building owner, who was arrested.
Self empowered people always realize that there is an option...unions rob that option as much as a greedy magnate does.


from the article:
The building had been illegally constructed, developed massive cracks in the days before its collapse and workers were forced to continue work despite safety fears. The building's owner has been arrested.

in reality, only slaves are "forced"...and that is not a Union issue. Again, a culture that promotes freedom and self-empowerment is the best standard bearer against being "forced".
Unions are no longer progress, they are history.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _subgenius »

MeDotOrg wrote:Bangladesh was a solid 'right to work' country. This past Monday the government finally allowed garment workers to form Trade Unions without the prior permission of factory owners.

For 1,127 garment workers who died in a building collapse last month, the legislation came too late.

Image

People form unions when their legitimate grievances are not addressed by management.

Can Unions become recalcitrant and corrupt? Yes, just like corporations. In an ideal world the interests of workers and management would be seamlessly aligned. They would both work towards long term viability while making profit in the short term. Easier said than done, I know.

The presence of Unions would not have prevented this tragedy....you are inciting a false dichotomy.

"The building had been illegally constructed, developed massive cracks in the days before its collapse and workers were forced to continue work despite safety fears. The building's owner has been arrested."
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_MeDotOrg
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Re: Addressing the income gap problem.

Post by _MeDotOrg »

subgenius wrote:
MeDotOrg wrote:Bangladesh was a solid 'right to work' country. This past Monday the government finally allowed garment workers to form Trade Unions without the prior permission of factory owners.

For 1,127 garment workers who died in a building collapse last month, the legislation came too late.

People form unions when their legitimate grievances are not addressed by management.

Can Unions become recalcitrant and corrupt? Yes, just like corporations. In an ideal world the interests of workers and management would be seamlessly aligned. They would both work towards long term viability while making profit in the short term. Easier said than done, I know.

The presence of Unions would not have prevented this tragedy....you are inciting a false dichotomy.

"The building had been illegally constructed, developed massive cracks in the days before its collapse and workers were forced to continue work despite safety fears. The building's owner has been arrested."


If there had been a Union Representation, the workers who were forced to continue work despite safety fears could have had a legal work stoppage over a legitimate safety issue.

And the owners would be in a lot less trouble than they are now.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land
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