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What is Snowden for you? For me he is a hero because he made clear which the NSA had done. And still did. For the NSA (NO SUCH AGENCY) laws of other countries are not valid. There is no privacy for the NSA. For the NSA everybody is a potential terrorist. For the NSA every conversation is in politics and economy also with the friends of the USA, one increase in power and economic influence.

Jutta wrote:What is Snowden for you? For me he is a hero because he made clear which the NSA had done. And still did. For the NSA (NO SUCH AGENCY) laws of other countries are not valid. There is no privacy for the NSA. For the NSA everybody is a potential terrorist. For the NSA every conversation is in politics and economy also with the friends of the USA, one increase in power and economic influence.

Well, I'm only slightly concerned. For one thing, they say they are only collecting meta-data, and that makes sense to me. There's no possible way they could actually monitor the content of everyone's phone calls. So if they're just looking at call trends and such, I don't fell threatened by that.

Also, I don't actually say anything on the phone that could get me in trouble. I've got nothing to hide.

On the other hand, I understand why people consider it a violation of their privacy. Again, it's the old debate between freedom and security. It's hard to find a balance of both.

As for Snowden himself, I'm ambivalent but mostly indifferent.

Does a government has any right, to collect your personal data? In the USA or elsewere?
The NSA didn't only spy about private persons, they also spied at the Europe Parliament, the German Chancellior, the French president and the British Prime Minister. And they also spied in many companies and Enterprises (economic spies). This is against the US law, against the German law, against European law, and against Moral Standards between counties who claimed that they are friends.
If you want to know, what I talk on phone or Chat at the Internet, you Need something from a judge, if you are a member of the NSA.
The actings of the NSA is against the constitution!

Jutta wrote:Does a government has any right, to collect your personal data? In the USA or elsewere?

If you have nosy neighbor who sits on his porch day and night and watches when you you leave, when come home, and who visits and how long they stay, does he have the right to take notes. If he does, can he share them with whoever he wants?

Your phone company, cable company, post office, etc. are your nosy neighbors. Absent legislation protecting your privacy, their right to "take notes" and share the information with the government is matter of contact right. They own the meta data that you believe is your private information.

Jaybear wrote:

Jutta wrote:Does a government has any right, to collect your personal data? In the USA or elsewere?

If you have nosy neighbor who sits on his porch day and night and watches when you you leave, when come home, and who visits and how long they stay, does he have the right to take notes. If he does, can he share them with whoever he wants?

Your phone company, cable company, post office, etc. are your nosy neighbors. Absent legislation protecting your privacy, their right to "take notes" and share the information with the government is matter of contact right. They own the meta data that you believe is your private information.

But it is against the law, that my phone or cable Company gave my privacy to the government. They have to Keep it private.

Most of what Snowden has claimed is tinfoil hat stuff. It's utter nonsense, but plays well to an ignorant and paranoid audience.

If you think about it, didn't Snowden know who his employer was, and what its mission is? He knew full well what the NSA is about, so I find it bizarre that he had some sort of attack of conscience. I don't buy it, and I find his behavior indicative of deeper issues (read: He's an idiot.).

- Doc

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Most of what Snowden has claimed is tinfoil hat stuff. It's utter nonsense, but plays well to an ignorant and paranoid audience.

If you think about it, didn't Snowden know who his employer was, and what its mission is? He knew full well what the NSA is about, so I find it bizarre that he had some sort of attack of conscience. I don't buy it, and I find his behavior indicative of deeper issues (read: He's an idiot.).

- Doc

Doc, it is strange anyway that both the NSA and the German Federal Intelligence Agency have confirmed what Snowden said. And, if it were only nonsense, why the USA wants to put him as a traitor in front of court? If everything (or the most) were a lie or half-truths?
I know the NSA rather well (not ask in which connection I would never gave you on this an answer). And even then the NSA was capable of many. The NSA has had some listening posts and offices in Germany. Bath Eibling (Bavaria, listening post) Hesse (offices and listening post), Berlin (offices and listening post), to mention only some. And these were from the time of the "cold war". Even then heard the NSA telephone calls from Germans in East (DDR) and West (FRG). And the NSA was tangled up into some dirty things (together with the CIA which she otherwise hates).
How I know all this?
Do not ask, otherwise I have to kill you. (just a joke)

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Most of what Snowden has claimed is tinfoil hat stuff. It's utter nonsense, but plays well to an ignorant and paranoid audience.

- Doc

Maybe your guy Zimmerman should start tailing Snowden.

Classifying illegal activity as top secret, and then classifying a whistle blower as a traitor, is more than a problem for a so-called "free country". This is the sort of stuff the anti-Communist lot, 50 or so years ago, fought against.

Round and round it goes.

I don't see Snowden as a hero or a traitor. I don't see that this is about him. It is about government surveillance of private citizens.

This is a tough call for me. All governments spy. The reason any particular government spies is because all the other ones do.

I'm not at all happy if the government is reading all my emails and listening to all my calls. I'm not sure they are doing that. I think that they are logging connections between calls, etc. but I don't think they are listening. No one has the time or personnel to commit to that sort of massive surveillance.

I think I understand Snowden's reasoning, but it is important that our government should be able to keep some things secret. There are bad guys in the world that will take advantage of those secrets.

Snowden had a secret clearance (I don't know what level). That means, among other things, that he signed a legal agreement to not disclose secret materials. I don't know if I care for young people deciding for themselves what should be disclosed to the public or what should be kept secret.

If the U.S. government seems to have serious interest in getting Snowden back here to stand trial, I think it's more about maintaining the integrity of government secrets and less about what he disclosed to the public.