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Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:26 pm
by drumdude
I haven't seen much talk about Ivermectin that isn't completely biased towards extreme ends of the political spectrum. No one ever talks about the
dose of Ivermectin, they only talk in absolutes. "Ivermectin is safe!" "Ivermectin is dangerous!" Who is right?
Here are some numbers.
The safe dose of Ivermectin, used as an anti-parasite drug is
150micrograms/kg. This is well known to be safe, and what all Ivermectin proponents refer to when they say "Ivermectin is a super safe drug!"
The dose at which Ivermectin causes acute injury is
2500micrograms/kg (this is in dogs, if anyone can find human data I would love to see it but a quick search only showed this).
Why would anyone take such a high dose? Because the research on Ivermectin as an anti-viral drug shows that much higher doses are needed than the typical anti-parasite dose. A study on Ivermectin versus Dengue Fever at
400micrograms/kg showed no effect. So the COVID studies on Ivermectin are using even higher doses,
600micrograms/kg just to try and see some effect.
That means that the dose has gone from 5% of the max limit, to 25% of the max limit. A huge increase. And even higher doses may be required before Ivermectin will be effective against COVID at all.
TL:DR - Ivermectin is safe at the normal doses, the left needs to acknowledge this. But Ivermectin is also unsafe at higher doses, which is what it appears are needed to have any effect against COVID. The right needs to acknowledge this.
Sources:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supple ... g-20064397
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article-ab ... edFrom=PDF
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ecli ... X/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5447583/
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:01 am
by Doctor CamNC4Me
I don’t have a problem with anyone taking Invermectin as prescribed by credible physicians, in legitimate settings, where they take their patients’ vitals, weight, and screen their medical history. I’m taking vitamin D after having talked to my doctor - she mentioned that it could be helpful as another tool in my body’s defense against Covid in case I get infected. So I take it daily now. But, yeah, I agree with your hot take. People, from what I see, have no tolerance for common ground if it makes ‘the other side’ not look as bad.
- Doc
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:15 am
by Res Ipsa
drumdude wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:26 pm
I haven't seen much talk about Ivermectin that isn't completely biased towards extreme ends of the political spectrum. No one ever talks about the
dose of Ivermectin, they only talk in absolutes. "Ivermectin is safe!" "Ivermectin is dangerous!" Who is right?
Here are some numbers.
The safe dose of Ivermectin, used as an anti-parasite drug is
150micrograms/kg. This is well known to be safe, and what all Ivermectin proponents refer to when they say "Ivermectin is a super safe drug!"
The dose at which Ivermectin causes acute injury is
2500micrograms/kg (this is in dogs, if anyone can find human data I would love to see it but a quick search only showed this).
Why would anyone take such a high dose? Because the research on Ivermectin as an anti-viral drug shows that much higher doses are needed than the typical anti-parasite dose. A study on Ivermectin versus Dengue Fever at
400micrograms/kg showed no effect. So the COVID studies on Ivermectin are using even higher doses,
600micrograms/kg just to try and see some effect.
That means that the dose has gone from 5% of the max limit, to 25% of the max limit. A huge increase. And even higher doses may be required before Ivermectin will be effective against COVID at all.
TL:DR - Ivermectin is safe at the normal doses, the left needs to acknowledge this. But Ivermectin is also unsafe at higher doses, which is what it appears are needed to have any effect against COVID. The right needs to acknowledge this.
Sources:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supple ... g-20064397
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article-ab ... edFrom=PDF
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ecli ... X/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5447583/
Maybe I hang with a different left, but I've not seen the left claim that Ivermectin is unsafe at the recommended dosage.
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:27 am
by drumdude
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:15 am
drumdude wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:26 pm
I haven't seen much talk about Ivermectin that isn't completely biased towards extreme ends of the political spectrum. No one ever talks about the
dose of Ivermectin, they only talk in absolutes. "Ivermectin is safe!" "Ivermectin is dangerous!" Who is right?
Here are some numbers.
The safe dose of Ivermectin, used as an anti-parasite drug is
150micrograms/kg. This is well known to be safe, and what all Ivermectin proponents refer to when they say "Ivermectin is a super safe drug!"
The dose at which Ivermectin causes acute injury is
2500micrograms/kg (this is in dogs, if anyone can find human data I would love to see it but a quick search only showed this).
Why would anyone take such a high dose? Because the research on Ivermectin as an anti-viral drug shows that much higher doses are needed than the typical anti-parasite dose. A study on Ivermectin versus Dengue Fever at
400micrograms/kg showed no effect. So the COVID studies on Ivermectin are using even higher doses,
600micrograms/kg just to try and see some effect.
That means that the dose has gone from 5% of the max limit, to 25% of the max limit. A huge increase. And even higher doses may be required before Ivermectin will be effective against COVID at all.
TL:DR - Ivermectin is safe at the normal doses, the left needs to acknowledge this. But Ivermectin is also unsafe at higher doses, which is what it appears are needed to have any effect against COVID. The right needs to acknowledge this.
Sources:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supple ... g-20064397
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article-ab ... edFrom=PDF
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ecli ... X/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5447583/
Maybe I hang with a different left, but I've not seen the left claim that Ivermectin is unsafe at the recommended dosage.
One thing I'm interested in is, dose aside, is there anything dangerous in the "horse paste?"
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:28 am
by Res Ipsa
drumdude wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:27 am
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:15 am
Maybe I hang with a different left, but I've not seen the left claim that Ivermectin is unsafe at the recommended dosage.
One thing I'm interested in is, dose aside, is there anything dangerous in the "horse paste?"
Not that I've heard.
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:39 am
by drumdude
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:28 am
drumdude wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:27 am
One thing I'm interested in is, dose aside, is there anything dangerous in the "horse paste?"
Not that I've heard.
Then the left needs to get off the horse paste thing, in my opinion. Let's just talk about ivermectin.
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:22 am
by Doctor CamNC4Me
drumdude wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:39 am
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:28 am
Not that I've heard.
Then the left needs to get off the horse paste thing, in my opinion. Let's just talk about ivermectin.
Horse paste:
“Dr. Shane Speights with The New York Institute of Technology College of Osteopathic Medicine says the paste can cause several problems.
“Let’s say it was manufactured for a large horse, but a human takes it, it can create low blood pressure, rapid heart rates, seizures, there are even episodes where you can see layers of your skin fall off,” said Speights. “It can damage the liver, and there’s vision loss that can be associated.””
- Doc
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:28 am
by drumdude
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:22 am
drumdude wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:39 am
Then the left needs to get off the horse paste thing, in my opinion. Let's just talk about ivermectin.
Horse paste:
“Dr. Shane Speights with The New York Institute of Technology College of Osteopathic Medicine says the paste can cause several problems.
“Let’s say it was manufactured for a large horse, but a human takes it, it can create low blood pressure, rapid heart rates, seizures, there are even episodes where you can see layers of your skin fall off,” said Speights. “It can damage the liver, and there’s vision loss that can be associated.””
- Doc
Appears that is talking about the high dose again, not any different ingredient in horse paste. If you're taking 150micrograms/kg of horse paste, it will essentially do nothing. Won't harm you, but the research shows it also won't fight off COVID.
Funny enough, the quacks that are recommending the vitamin C/D/Ivermectin regimen are only recommending up to 400ug/kg, which the studies they point to about its effectiveness show that the dose is too small to do anything. But if they tried to recommend higher doses, which are achievable only with the horse paste, then you'll get the liver damage.
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:40 am
by Doctor CamNC4Me
I think the thing I question is the average person’s ability to dose correctly, whatever form Invermectin comes in. I mean, Covid is already turning out to be a sort of Darwin Award situation, so I’m not sure any of us could ever talk sense into a person who is dosing horse paste. I guess I need to google Invermectin+horse paste+deaths/hospitalizations.
- Doc
Re: Ivermectin dosage, cutting through the misinformation
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:01 am
by Alf'Omega
The reason for the mockery on the Left has more to do with the fact that the Right has been hilariously inconsistent if not hypocritical with respect to potential treatments for COVID.
First it was just a hoax, then it was just the Flu, then it was already cured with Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc. They've been wrong about virtually everything. Then the vaccines came, and those who refused to vaccinate hail overwhelmingly from the Right and their reasoning is that they "don't know what's in it." But they know what's in all these quack cures promoted on their favorite channels, FOX and Newsmax?