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Re: cost of living
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:25 pm
by _Quasimodo
Themis wrote:Quasimodo wrote:
Over the Canadian Rockies? That will cost a boatload. It still might be the best solution. What port are they aiming for?
People need to keep in mind while pipelines are the best way to move the oil, the oil still moves without pipelines. Rail has seen a huge increase in shipping Oil. Canada will be able to move their oil to markets even without pipelines, but pipelines would be more efficient and safer. Also you don't have to built over the mountains when some good passes will do.
http://www.northerngateway.ca/project-details/route-map/
Thanks for the link! I guess it is going to be a pipeline (lots of public opposition, though).
Yep, I didn't actually think that they would build it over the top of the Rockies.
They estimate $6.5 billion for a pipe to Kitimat, which is just down the road compared to Houston, Texas for the Keystone XL. That's estimated to cost $7 billion for a pipeline across the prairies and great planes (flat the whole way).
Re: cost of living
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:49 pm
by _subgenius
Quasimodo wrote:ajax18 wrote:Canada has already started building a pipeline to ship the oil west to barges bound for Asia. How has the environment benefited?
Over the Canadian Rockies? That will cost a boatload. It still might be the best solution. What port are they aiming for?
http://www.gatewayfacts.ca/about-the-pr ... -overview/
Re: cost of living
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:00 pm
by _Quasimodo
Just doing a little Googling, it seems that estimates of when we (the world... all of us) will seriously run out of oil and natural gas range from 50 to 150 years. That's based on current views of the increase in our requirements (think China) and estimates of what reserves are left to find.
Before that happens, the cost of oil will increase to the point where it will become economically unviable.
Canadian oil sands are a stopgap measure. Canada needs to sell its oil and the world needs to use it, so I'm sure a pipeline will be built somewhere. We really have to do better, though.
If an economical, renewable energy source is not developed in the near future, the world will look back on the Great Depression as the 'Good Old Days'.
Re: cost of living
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:04 pm
by _Quasimodo
Yep, I read that. See my earlier post. Thanks, anyway!
Re: cost of living
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:07 am
by _canpakes
ajax18 wrote:... we could be looking at lot more than $3 and change at the pump...
Re: cost of living
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:21 am
by _ludwigm
Whining, whining?
In Germany it is $8.75, in The Netherlands $9.6 . (counted in that stupid gallon...)
In Hungary it is only 7.15 - and our average incoming is 1/6 - 1/8 of the US or the EU.
Re: cost of living
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:55 am
by _Quasimodo
ludwigm wrote:Whining, whining?
In Germany it is $8.75, in The Netherlands $9.6 . (counted in that stupid gallon...)
In Hungary it is only 7.15 - and our average incoming is 1/6 - 1/8 of the US or the EU.
I have this chat with my English cousin all the time. It doesn't really equate. In Southern California there is virtually no public transportation. Very many people commute over 50 miles each way to work every day.
In most of Europe one doesn't need to own a car. It's a luxury. Where I live it's a vital part of getting to work every day. No car, no job.
Re: cost of living
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:50 am
by _MeDotOrg
Quasimodo wrote:In most of Europe one doesn't need to own a car. It's a luxury. Where I live it's a vital part of getting to work every day. No car, no job.
General Motors, Firestone, Standard Oil and others took part in a concerted effort dismantle light rail city transport in American cities during the first half of the 20th Century. Yea Capitalism!
From
Wikipedia:
Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines and Pacific City Lines—with investment from GM, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, Mack Trucks, and the Federal Engineering Corporation—purchased over 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities including St. Louis, Baltimore, Newark, Los Angeles, New York City, Oakland and San Diego and converted them into bus operations. Several of the companies involved were convicted in 1949 of conspiracy to monopolize interstate commerce but were acquitted of conspiring to monopolize the ownership of these companies.
Some suggest that this program played a key role in the decline of public transit in cities across the United States; notably Edwin J. Quinby, who first drew attention to the program in 1946, and then Bradford C. Snell, an anti-trust attorney for the United States Senate whose controversial 1974 testimony to a Senate inquiry brought the issue to national awareness. Both Quinby and Snell argued that the deliberate destruction of streetcars was part of a larger strategy to push the United States into automobile dependency.[1] Others say that independent economic factors brought about changes in the transit system, including the Great Depression, the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935, labor unrest, market forces, rapidly increasing traffic congestion, urban sprawl, taxation policies that favored private vehicle ownership, and general enthusiasm for the automobile.[2] More recently Guy Span, a noted writer on the subject has suggested that Snell and others fell into simplistic conspiracy theory thinking, bordering on paranoid delusions[n 1] saying "Clearly, GM waged a war on electric traction. It was indeed an all out assault, but by no means the single reason for the failure of rapid transit. Also, it is just as clear that actions and inactions by government contributed significantly to the elimination of electric traction."[n 2]
Only a small handful of U.S. cities have surviving effective rail-based urban transport systems based on streetcars or trams, including Newark, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Pittsburgh, and Boston; others are re-introducing them. The story has been explored several times in print, film and other media, notably in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Taken for a Ride and The End of Suburbia.
Re: cost of living
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:03 am
by _ludwigm
Quasimodo wrote:In most of Europe one doesn't need to own a car. It's a luxury.
It is not that simple.
Public transportation can be compared to three or four passenger in the car.
We use our car only if necessary. This means an average of 16.000 km per year. This fits to the last 30 years.
With 20 grandchildren...
My daughter's family in The Netherlands have two cars, an absolute necessity, over the five bicycles (one for one).
I have no data for the other parts of West-Europe.
by the way
The parking lot of the Freiberg Temple is full in every Sunday. East Germany area. I know all the numbered local busses there, they are covering the city and around. I used them all.
Re: cost of living
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:02 pm
by _subgenius
ludwigm wrote:Whining, whining?
In Germany it is $8.75, in The Netherlands $9.6 . (counted in that stupid gallon...)
In Hungary it is only 7.15 - and our average incoming is 1/6 - 1/8 of the US or the EU.
but you have less distance and/or reason to drive anywhere.