"Asking whether or not a victim is telling the truth is irrelevant," Ms. Hess proclaimed. "It's just not important if they are telling the truth. If this person had wanted criminal justice they would have pursued it."
Why are women permitted to make false accusations of rape and face no consequence for doing so?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
Making false allegations of rape is punishable both criminally and in civil cases where defamation of character applies. Of course, to make either stick you have to actually prove a false allegation was made and that it was intended to be false. It's not often that this is readily provable.
Is your complaint that it isn't easy enough to punish women for making allegations of rape? Is it that you believe if a woman can't prove her allegation true in a court of law, then it should be presumed false and punishment should follow? What about the status quo concerns you? Do you think if it was easy for women to face punishment for making allegations of rape, would it be more or less likely for victims of sexual assault to come forward?
EAllusion wrote:Making false allegations of rape is punishable both criminally and in civil cases where defamation of character applies. Of course, to make either stick you have to actually prove a false allegation was made and that it was intended to be false. It's not often that this is readily provable.
Is your complaint that it isn't easy enough to punish women for making allegations of rape? Is it that you believe if a woman can't prove her allegation true in a court of law, then it should be presumed false and punishment should follow? What about the status quo concerns you? Do you think if it was easy for women to face punishment for making allegations of rape, would it be more or less likely for victims of sexual assault to come forward?
I think the point he is trying to make is that the accusation was supposedly made by a Democrat or liberal against a supposed Republican or conservative, and use that as an excuse to denigrate or discredit liberals in general. It is yet another desperate grasping at straws to support the supposedly inherent, moral superiority of his conservative views.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Everyone can see what's going on. The Dems and their allies are desperately casting about looking for cases or rape or racism that can regenerate a lost cause in an era where they hardly exist. This is why they lost this election and a good indication they will lose the next if the GOP keeps up the pressure.
The only recent case of note is has been the six year long brutal gang rape of America by the Democrats destroying our economy, or the possibility of a much better one, our credibility in the world, and the notion of a Constitutional government itself.
The danger is that they will always be able to regenerate their lost cause because there is a sucker born everyday.
bcspace wrote:Everyone can see what's going on. The Dems and their allies are desperately casting about looking for cases or rape or racism that can regenerate a lost cause in an era where they hardly exist. This is why they lost this election and a good indication they will lose the next if the GOP keeps up the pressure.
The only recent case of note is has been the six year long brutal gang rape of America by the Democrats destroying our economy, or the possibility of a much better one, our credibility in the world, and the notion of a Constitutional government itself.
The danger is that they will always be able to regenerate their lost cause because there is a sucker born everyday.
Is that why the economy declined during the Bush administration and has continually improved during the Obama administration?
It is remarkable that you still think you can make a legitimate case for the idea that Democrats are destroying our economy in the face of the fact that the U.S. economy is clearly in better shape now than it was before Obama was elected. In fact, as already pointed out, it actually improved more than Romney promised it would do if he were elected. If it begins to deteriorate now that Republicans control both the Senate and the House of Representatives, you will undoubtedly try to blame the Democrats for it, despite that.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Is your complaint that it isn't easy enough to punish women for making allegations of rape? Is it that you believe if a woman can't prove her allegation true in a court of law, then it should be presumed false and punishment should follow?
I think it was pretty clear in the Duke rape case that Crystal Mangum was lying. Nothing happened to her criminally for it. Since she didn't have any money, nothing happened to her civilly either. How can a false allegation be made and not be intended to be false?
It wasn't uncommon during my teaching days to see male teachers accused of sexual misconduct simply because they refused to allow a girl to skip class. It was a complete fabrication, made up by the accuser. Yet the teachers union had to spend an extensive amount of money in attorney's fees, the teacher was put on suspension, only to determine that it was a lie. I don't even think the girl was required to make an apology.
Do you think if it was easy for women to face punishment for making allegations of rape, would it be more or less likely for victims of sexual assault to come forward?
I think justice should be served based on the merits of the case on a case by case basis. Rape is wrong. I think bearing false witness is as bad as whatever crime you're accusing a person. If you're telling the truth, there shouldn't be any reason to fear coming forward. If you're not telling the truth, than I think you should be scared to come forward. My complaint is the liberal view that the truth doesn't matter.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
ajax18 wrote:I think bearing false witness is as bad as whatever crime you're accusing a person.
Being falsely accused of rape is just as bad as being a rape victim?
I don't know that it's always as bad as being a rape victim, but I think considerable damage is done to people who are the victim of such false accusation. For many it means the loss of a career and the loss of the time and investment to attain that career. It could mean 20 years in jail. It could mean millions of dollars in attorneys fees proving your innocence. What's a fair punishment for causing this kind of damage to a person? Sorry, I thought it was him or I have depression and a mental disorder so that absolves me from lying but shouldn't cast any doubt on my testimony? Or in this case, I made it up to make money on a book that I think helps rape victims. If I destroy a man's reputation in the process, that shouldn't matter. "The truth doesn't matter."??
People can be mistaken in their beliefs. Think of the "recovered memory" false sexual assault allegations boom of the 80's and early 90's
It doesn't seem like we have improved the legal system much to protect victims of false accusation in light of this fact. The Duke rape case happened in 2007. You don't have to be convicted to lose your job, be kicked out of college, have the lacrosse season cancelled. How many people in the media chanting racism and sexism apologized to the Duke Lacrosse players? If it weren't for Fox News, who would have cleared their names?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
I don't know that it's always as bad as being a rape victim, but I think considerable damage is done to people who are the victim of such false accusation.
Sure. It is potentially quite harmful to a person to be falsely accused of being a rapist, especially if that accusation involves children in any way. This is even true if they are not convicted of anything. At its worst, an unsubstantiated allegation can ruin a person's career, family life, friendships, and living arrangements. That's quite serious. This harm just should be confused with being a rape victim, which one of the more psychologically traumatizing experiences a person can have.
In the case of Lena Duhnam, she make an accusation in a memoir where names have been changed. It's hard to see who can be the victim here. What has happened is there is a person who was at Oberlin the same time she was there was was both a notable Republican and named Barry. And while the person she is claiming raped her isn't him, he's concerned that he could be unfairly mistaken as that person. This makes for a very thin defamation case, but it doesn't square with your call for false accusers to be punished. Again, malicious false accusations when they can be proven as such are subject to both criminal and civil penalties. You have to explain what else you want done. Presumably, you don't want to place a burden of proof on the accuser, because that would have an extremely negative chilling effect on victims coming forward and reverse the presumption of innocence in their case. It's just not clear what you want done.