Rules and Moderator information

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Marcus
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Re: Potential Rule Changes

Post by Marcus »

Markk wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:11 am
…They find an adhesive continuity within their tribe, and when that continuity and sense of comfort is threatened by other folks opinions, it threatens their “testimony” so to speak of the one true ideology. “I know my ideology is the only true ideology and that my leader is the only true leader.”
Funny, I’m getting familiar with the regulars here and defining them all as having one ideology and one leader would be completely impossible. How you conclude that is unfathomable.
K Graham
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Re: Potential Rule Changes

Post by K Graham »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:26 am
Markk wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:11 am
…They find an adhesive continuity within their tribe, and when that continuity and sense of comfort is threatened by other folks opinions, it threatens their “testimony” so to speak of the one true ideology. “I know my ideology is the only true ideology and that my leader is the only true leader.”
Funny, I’m getting familiar with the regulars here and defining them all as having one ideology and one leader would be completely impossible. How you conclude that is unfathomable.
It sucks because the transition to the new board meant losing a few years worth of material, particularly from 2016-2019 in which people supposedly from the same "tribe" were arguing like crazy with one another. I laugh every time Mike lumps me and Doc into the same "PROGRESSIVE!!" category. Doc spent probably two years countering everything I said, particularly on issues of social justice.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Potential Rule Changes

Post by Jersey Girl »

K Graham wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:30 am
Marcus wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:26 am
Funny, I’m getting familiar with the regulars here and defining them all as having one ideology and one leader would be completely impossible. How you conclude that is unfathomable.
It sucks because the transition to the new board meant losing a few years worth of material, particularly from 2016-2019 in which people supposedly from the same "tribe" were arguing like crazy with one another. I laugh every time Mike lumps me and Doc into the same "PROGRESSIVE!!" category. Doc spent probably two years countering everything I said, particularly on issues of social justice.
Those old threads were moved to this board once this board was established. They still exist. :)

Look down the index page of this forum. Look for a thread started by honor with his name in black.That's one of the old threads. Here's a link to it: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=144323 But do locate it by scanning the index so you know what to look for.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Rules and Moderator information

Post by Jersey Girl »

Kevin here is a link to page 38 of this forum. You'll see the majority of the old board threads begin on that page. Some have moved forward with people bumping them. But the bulk of them start on this page.

viewforum.php?f=7&start=925
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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Markk
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Re: Potential Rule Changes

Post by Markk »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:26 am
Markk wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:11 am
…They find an adhesive continuity within their tribe, and when that continuity and sense of comfort is threatened by other folks opinions, it threatens their “testimony” so to speak of the one true ideology. “I know my ideology is the only true ideology and that my leader is the only true leader.”
Funny, I’m getting familiar with the regulars here and defining them all as having one ideology and one leader would be completely impossible. How you conclude that is unfathomable.
I will show you…
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Potential Rule Changes

Post by Res Ipsa »

Markk wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:11 am
Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:38 am


I agree with Kevin. Let’s do exactly what he says. It actually helps me and the threads I start.
This issue in not about trolling, many complaining about your “trolling” are experts at it, it is not about anything but controlling the narrative. The reality is certain folks find comfort here, and that’s okay, I get it. They find an adhesive continuity within their tribe, and when that continuity and sense of comfort is threatened by other folks opinions, it threatens their “testimony” so to speak of the one true ideology. “I know my ideology is the only true ideology and that my leader is the only true leader.”

I came out of Mormonism before many if no most of the folks here did. And on the old boards we would debate in the same fashion, me as evangelical, and they as Saints…only then the narrative of the church was true, and their rock and comfort. I would go back and forth with here many here, many times…and they defended Mormonism with the same passion as they defends their left wing ideology today.

To your point though I would hate to see Shades vision tampered with, I think folks should just ignore those that they don’t like. But if their is to be moderation I think it would be interesting to let each thread starter moderate their thread…it would never work, but it would be fun to watch. I would like to see conservative threads evolve without the “trolling”…but good luck with that.

Take care.
I’m disagreeable enough to disagree with you and Kevin. The point of whatever this exercise was was not to get rid of trolls. The point was to address a situation in which chronic trolling was degrading many people’s enjoyment of the forum to the extent that they were leaving. In a libertarian utopia, that simply wouldn’t happen because part of being a libertarian is having the self restraint not to use your liberty to take away somebody else’s. Self restraint makes government restraint unnecessary.

But people who target an online space for trolling don’t exercise that kind of self-restraint. In fact, they do just the opposite. They try to disrupt or hijack online space for their own amusement. They prey on free speech spaces because they anticipate being able to behave however they choose. They don’t care at all about Shades’ vision.

If you’d like to see conservatives threads evolve without trolling, we’ve already set that up: a new forum on the non-Mormon side of the board that is equivalent to Celestial in terms of rules. As we said upthread, trolling in that forum will inevitably be a violation of the forum rules and will be moved. It’s existed for weeks. Take a look at all the conservative threads Atlanticmike has started there. Why isn’t he taking advantage of that forum to discuss conservatives views? Because he’s not here to discuss — he’s here to troll.

Using the ignore feature is my front line solution to trolling. Unfortunately, it doesn’t let one completely ignore the trolls because people quote the troll and the quoted language is visible. In my perfect world, people simply don’t troll — they accelerate and respect the liberty of others to speak and communicate. But I never get my perfect world (or a pony), so the mod team does its best to try and create an environment consistent with Shades vision.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Rules and Moderator information

Post by Res Ipsa »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:57 pm
Thanks, mod team. That is a pretty impressive statement regarding both what constitutes trolling within a forum, and what does not, while also including the evaluation of conduct across time. And you solidly supported Shades’ goal of freedom of speech!

Very, very well said.
Thanks. We’ll see how it goes.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Potential Rule Changes

Post by Res Ipsa »

K Graham wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:30 am
Marcus wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:26 am
Funny, I’m getting familiar with the regulars here and defining them all as having one ideology and one leader would be completely impossible. How you conclude that is unfathomable.
It sucks because the transition to the new board meant losing a few years worth of material, particularly from 2016-2019 in which people supposedly from the same "tribe" were arguing like crazy with one another. I laugh every time Mike lumps me and Doc into the same "PROGRESSIVE!!" category. Doc spent probably two years countering everything I said, particularly on issues of social justice.
I see Jersey Girl brought you up to speed on the old posts. My experience with Cam is similar to yours. He’s a radical centrist. He started harassing me about feminism to the point that I just stuck him on ignore for several months. On the other hand, he has some amazing insights that I find valuable. And his offer to be FAQS’ exercise buddy to help him improve his health was one of the most generous and selfless offers I’ve seen. To label him as a progressive mastermind is pretty absurd.
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When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Potential Rule Changes

Post by Res Ipsa »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:26 am
Markk wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:11 am
…They find an adhesive continuity within their tribe, and when that continuity and sense of comfort is threatened by other folks opinions, it threatens their “testimony” so to speak of the one true ideology. “I know my ideology is the only true ideology and that my leader is the only true leader.”
Funny, I’m getting familiar with the regulars here and defining them all as having one ideology and one leader would be completely impossible. How you conclude that is unfathomable.
I have a crackpot theory. Folks on the right have been more cohesive than folks on the left for quite a while now. And within the subset of Trump Republicans, the loyalty is to Trump above all. They move in lockstep more than any political movement I’ve seen in a long time. It’s not an accident that the Republican Party adopted no platform in 2020. Trump was the platform. Trump is the leader of a movement in a way that Biden, or any other political figure is not.

It’s very common for people to expect others to see the world in the same terms they do. Where else Would projection come from? So, if one is part of a very homogenous political group focused on an individual, it’s natural to assume that other people’s political affiliations work the same way.

“I’m not a member of any organized party — I’m a democrat” isn’t just a saying. It’s accurate. And it’s even more true among self identified progressives.
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canpakes
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Re: Potential Rule Changes

Post by canpakes »

Markk wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:11 am
This issue in not about trolling, many complaining about your “trolling” are experts at it, it is not about anything but controlling the narrative. The reality is certain folks find comfort here, and that’s okay, I get it. They find an adhesive continuity within their tribe, and when that continuity and sense of comfort is threatened by other folks opinions, it threatens their “testimony” so to speak of the one true ideology. “I know my ideology is the only true ideology and that my leader is the only true leader.”

I came out of Mormonism before many if no most of the folks here did. And on the old boards we would debate in the same fashion, me as evangelical, and they as Saints…only then the narrative of the church was true, and their rock and comfort. I would go back and forth with here many here, many times…and they defended Mormonism with the same passion as they defends their left wing ideology today.

To your point though I would hate to see Shades vision tampered with, I think folks should just ignore those that they don’t like. But if their is to be moderation I think it would be interesting to let each thread starter moderate their thread…it would never work, but it would be fun to watch. I would like to see conservative threads evolve without the “trolling”…but good luck with that.

Take care.

Markk, if you have been away for as long as you appear to have been, you’ve missed the majority of activity that has brought us to this point. Specifically, the last 9 months or so have seen more disruption than the past 15 years probably have, and not for reasons that you speculate about above.

Several thousand posts (yes, you read that number correctly) by one participant alone were removed by that participant because not even he was keen to leave that record laying around as a testimony of his own actions.

If you want to get a sample of how things have been during the period that I mention, dip down into Spirit Prison for a look around.
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