DiscussMormonism.com

Atlanticmike wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:48 pm

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:38 pm

Give you the ability to censor speech you don’t like? You who has been pretending to support Shades vision of a libertarian utopia? Thanks for giving me an early laugh. I am entertained.

Do you see what I did there. Do you see what I got you to admit to. Man I should’ve been a lawyer.

Markk wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:39 am

I am worried about 6 dollar a gallon gas for those that can't afford it, i am blessed I will get by, I hope. And if you read my posts it is about how you guys are dumping on Shades vision, not who is moderating, but that there is a need to do so. But your point is taken and maybe we all need to take a step back and look at what is really important.

Take care.

I suggest you take a long, hard look. Even if you raised 1000$ to bribe Shades, that 1000$ wouldn't even come close to paying for the time I've personally spent both in interpersonal and technical efforts to keep this board going. Add to that the time Res, Xen, and Canpakes have spent moderating according to what is from my view, a cumbersome format that allows hyper-trolls to maximize their profits -- wasting peoples' time as much as possible. Then add Dr. Moore's time on technical matters and his time is worth a lot more than mine. Then add the time and efforts of a few others who don't want to be named who, without them, the board would be left rotting away and my own efforts wouldn't have mattered. You've done nothing to help in the last two years, have you Markk? Your bribe would need to be somewhere between 10 - 100x what you're offering to even be close to a fair bribe.

As an aside: You don't care about gas being 6$ any more than my right-wing friend who owns several houses cares about it. You're all in on a talking point, the reality behind which you don't understand because you've never taken an economics class. All the work you've benefited from as a renovator comes from the same place as my right-wing friend's money; his real estate ventures. And that's all part of the same phenomena of rising oil prices.

Markk wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:13 am

Our world is going to crap and you are whining about a troll that is yanking your chain on a obscure Internet forum? People are dying on the streets fro drug abuse, Ukrainians are dying and forced from their country, gas is 6 bucks a gallon, a pack of M&M’s is 2.09, Nickle just rose 250% and I have to pay 400$ for (1). Stainless steel 4x4 post base, a pound of bacon is $10.00, a pound of solder is $42.00, and you are upset about a Internet forum troll?

Hey, plywood just went down to $42, that’s a positive

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Markk wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:39 am

I am worried about 6 dollar a gallon gas for those that can't afford it, i am blessed I will get by, I hope. And if you read my posts it is about how you guys are dumping on Shades vision, not who is moderating, but that there is a need to do so. But your point is taken and maybe we all need to take a step back and look at what is really important.

Take care.

I suggest you take a long, hard look. Even if you raised 1000$ to bribe Shades, that 1000$ wouldn't even come close to paying for the time I've personally spent both in interpersonal and technical efforts to keep this board going. Add to that the time Res, Xen, and Canpakes have spent moderating according to what is from my view, a cumbersome format that allows hyper-trolls to maximize their profits -- wasting peoples' time as much as possible. Then add Dr. Moore's time on technical matters and his time is worth a lot more than mine. Then add the time and efforts of a few others who don't want to be named who, without them, the board would be left rotting away and my own efforts wouldn't have mattered. You've done nothing to help in the last two years, have you Markk? Your bribe would need to be somewhere between 10 - 100x what you're offering to even be close to a fair bribe.

At least he deleted the gofundme, but I suspect that was fear of a fraud accusation more than anything else.

And thanks again for the efforts for all you listed, named and otherwise. You guys don’t get enough credit for that, but it is truly appreciated.

On the subject of trolling: the mod team has determined that the forum does not need a specific rule that addresses trolling at this time. We believe the tools currently available to us will suffice. In general, trolling is posting, not for the purpose of communicating, but for the purpose of disrupting communication by provoking interpersonal hostility and conflict. Many people here engage in occasional trolling, ranging from the passive aggressive to the active aggressive. On that level, the target of the trolling is perfectly capable of not taking the bait and ignoring the trolling. However, certain types of trolling violate the letter and/or spirit of the rules and should be subject to moderation.

In Celestial and SSP, where "on topic" is strictly enforced, trolling will nearly always be a "derail" or "disrespectful speech" and will be moved to the appropriate kingdom.

In Terrestial and Paradise, some degree of trolling may fall within the rules. However, chronic trolling or targeted trolling of an individual may rise to the level of interfering with the smooth operation of the board under UR 8. In particular, if one is trolling for entertainment and the trolling is degrading another's entertainment, we will address the situation by considering the greatest good for the greatest number, according to our best judgment. That will not automatically equate to "majority rules."

In Telestial and Prison, trolling is permitted, welcomed, and encouraged. Spectators are required to bring their own popcorn, as our machine is out of order.

Things that are not trolling in and of themselves: expressing a minority viewpoint, expressing an unpopular opinion, expressing a viewpoint that you find repugnant, expressing a political position, strongly arguing a position, emotionally arguing a position. Trolling is a set of behaviors that is content neutral.

Determining whether a forum member is engaging in trolling that requires moderator intervention often involves evaluating a course of conduct over time. The result will inevitably be that we will not address a trolling issue as fast as some folks would like. However, labeling someone as a "troll" can be based on nothing more than difference of opinion or dislike of an individual. Given Shades' expression of concern over the formation of cliques, we will take the time we need to satisfy ourselves that trolling is occurring and that moderation intervention is appropriate.

Finally, we are concerned with behavior, not labels. Given that many people engage in trolling from time to time, labeling someone as a troll doesn't tell us anything we need to know. Please consider that by calling someone a troll, you may be using your freedom of speech to shut down someone else's.

Mod team.

Has the preceding message been pinned? If not, may I suggest that it should be?

I hope that now Rome Has Spoken we can stop discussing rule changes for a while, and see how the mods set about applying these rules. That probably will be more enlightening than a stack of "but what if" questions at this point.

Thanks, mod team. That is a pretty impressive statement regarding both what constitutes trolling within a forum, and what does not, while also including the evaluation of conduct across time. And you solidly supported Shades’ goal of freedom of speech!

Very, very well said.

Atlanticmike wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:38 am

K Graham wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:35 pm

Not sure how we can hope to better the forum without at least some rule changes. I mean the whole purpose of this exercise was to get rid of trolls for a variety of reasons. If we don't create rules to that effect then mods are left to just act arbitrarily.

I agree with Kevin. Let’s do exactly what he says. It actually helps me and the threads I start.

This issue in not about trolling, many complaining about your “trolling” are experts at it, it is not about anything but controlling the narrative. The reality is certain folks find comfort here, and that’s okay, I get it. They find an adhesive continuity within their tribe, and when that continuity and sense of comfort is threatened by other folks opinions, it threatens their “testimony” so to speak of the one true ideology. “I know my ideology is the only true ideology and that my leader is the only true leader.”

I came out of Mormonism before many if no most of the folks here did. And on the old boards we would debate in the same fashion, me as evangelical, and they as Saints…only then the narrative of the church was true, and their rock and comfort. I would go back and forth with here many here, many times…and they defended Mormonism with the same passion as they defends their left wing ideology today.

To your point though I would hate to see Shades vision tampered with, I think folks should just ignore those that they don’t like. But if their is to be moderation I think it would be interesting to let each thread starter moderate their thread…it would never work, but it would be fun to watch. I would like to see conservative threads evolve without the “trolling”…but good luck with that.

Take care.

Chap wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:20 pm

Has the preceding message been pinned? If not, may I suggest that it should be?

I hope that now Rome Has Spoken we can stop discussing rule changes for a while, and see how the mods set about applying these rules. That probably will be more enlightening than a stack of "but what if" questions at this point.

On my list of things to address is how to make “rulings” more accessible and easier to find. I don’t think pinning is a good solution, as the front page would rapidly become obscured by pins. But I think there are other workable solutions available.

Markk wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:11 am

This issue in not about trolling, many complaining about your “trolling” are experts at it, it is not about anything but controlling the narrative. The reality is certain folks find comfort here, and that’s okay, I get it. They find an adhesive continuity within their tribe, and when that continuity and sense of comfort is threatened by other folks opinions, it threatens their “testimony” so to speak of the one true ideology. “I know my ideology is the only true ideology and that my leader is the only true leader.”

Sounds like a lot of projection going on here.

I came out of Mormonism before many if no most of the folks here did. And on the old boards we would debate in the same fashion, me as evangelical, and they as Saints…only then the narrative of the church was true, and their rock and comfort. I would go back and forth with here many here, many times…and they defended Mormonism with the same passion as they defends their left wing ideology today.

Absolute nonsense. There is no "religion" here, but the closest thing to that would be with the Ajax/Mike/Markk types who found a new identity in Right Wing politics.

You are precisely like those Mormon apologists who argue via assertion and refuse to stick around for actual debate over the facts.