Leadership

[_Markk]

How do you conclude this. How do you know that the laws are not already working in reducing the number of people dieing. I susopect without the laws we have more would drink and drive. We might both agree that the laws may not be perfect and that we should be looking at ways to improve things. So why not with guns? The laws are very poor.

Far more people here die from alcohol and drugs, than guns? It is a fact.

We have gun laws coming out of our ears, and many are not enforced.

I asked once what gun laws do you think we should have? Or do you believe the average citizen should not be allowed to own guns?

I live in Califorina, which has the toughest gun laws of any other state...Utah has the least gun laws, where almost anyone can get a permit to carry. Why is it that it is safer to live in SLC vs San Bernardino, both have about 200k people? SLC has a murder rate of about 4 per 100K , and SB has a murder rate of over 20 per 100K, yet San Bernardino has the toughest gun laws, and SLC the least (by state).

They are not really that strict and you need laws that are country wide.

See above. What gun laws do you want added?

[_Markk]

You can't reduce a complex nation-state into a crude analogy of being a "bully" and then base geo-political decisions on that. And the idea that confronting a bully will cause them to back down because they are all cowards at heart is ludicrously wrong on top of that. Not only is this bad foreign policy advice, it's really bad advice for dealing with bullies too.

What is the plan?

[_Themis]

How do you conclude this. How do you know that the laws are not already working in reducing the number of people dieing. I susopect without the laws we have more would drink and drive. We might both agree that the laws may not be perfect and that we should be looking at ways to improve things. So why not with guns? The laws are very poor.

Far more people here die from alcohol and drugs, than guns? It is a fact.

So? That does nothing about what I said that laws can still help reduce the numbers. I do think the war on drugs has been a failure and changes need to be made.

I asked once what gun laws do you think we should have? Or do you believe the average citizen should not be allowed to own guns?

Ya, you asked and I answered. It's not my fault you have ignored it and other peoples suggestions. One great idea is licensing.

I live in Califorina, which has the toughest gun laws of any other state...Utah has the least gun laws, where almost anyone can get a permit to carry. Why is it that it is safer to live in Salt Lake City vs San Bernardino, both have about 200k people? Salt Lake City has a murder rate of about 4 per 100K , and SB has a murder rate of over 20 per 100K, yet San Bernardino has the toughest gun laws, and Salt Lake City the least (by state).

You say lack of enforcement. I would agree if laws are not being enforced. Laws don't work well if they are not. Also, California is not a country, so it's borders are not guarded from the rest of the US. How many guns is only one factor in gun related deaths. There are more suicides using guns then homicides. You cannot get a gun very easily in Canada, but if you are a responsible law abiding citizen you can. Some might be surprised on what kind of guns you can get. It seems you admit California does not enforce enough, but they don't even have a licensing system.

[_Themis]

You can't reduce a complex nation-state into a crude analogy of being a "bully" and then base geo-political decisions on that. And the idea that confronting a bully will cause them to back down because they are all cowards at heart is ludicrously wrong on top of that. Not only is this bad foreign policy advice, it's really bad advice for dealing with bullies too.

What is the plan?

There's already a plan. It's not our fault you are ignorant of the issues here. This is why trump is doing well within the Republican race ATM. I have some faith he will be rejected by most of them, but he has been doing some damage and helping to make things worse. People who support him tend to be very ignorant of what is going on, and very racist and intolerant. Not things that help to create peace and understanding. If Trump were to win and do the things he says I suspect it may be time for people to go into their bomb shelters if they have one.

[_Markk]

There's already a plan. It's not our fault you are ignorant of the issues here. This is why trump is doing well within the Republican race ATM. I have some faith he will be rejected by most of them, but he has been doing some damage and helping to make things worse. People who support him tend to be very ignorant of what is going on, and very racist and intolerant. Not things that help to create peace and understanding. If Trump were to win and do the things he says I suspect it may be time for people to go into their bomb shelters if they have one.

Then what is the plan? Who is "our" above?

I know Obama met yesterday at the pentagon yesterday to discuss a plan, which I have not read about yet?

Not sure why got on a Trump rant when I ask you a specific question about the war on terror, whicj you did not answer?

[_Markk]

Themis wrote...So? That does nothing about what I said that laws can still help reduce the numbers. I do think the war on drugs has been a failure and changes need to be made.

"So?" You don't care and demand more laws for a problem that kills and destroys the life's of far more people than gun violence does?

What laws and changes need to be made on the war on drugs?

Ya, you asked and I answered. It's not my fault you have ignored it and other peoples suggestions. One great idea is licensing.

And every law you said, we have here in Ca and other states? And I asked what other laws? Now you say licensing? I am not aware of any state that does not required all guns to be registered? Are you saying everybody has to have a license apart from registering a firearm?

Should we also create a law that people should be licensed before they drive, so they don't drive drunk?

You say lack of enforcement. I would agree if laws are not being enforced. Laws don't work well if they are not. Also, California is not a country, so it's borders are not guarded from the rest of the US. How many guns is only one factor in gun related deaths. There are more suicides using guns then homicides. You cannot get a gun very easily in Canada, but if you are a responsible law abiding citizen you can. Some might be surprised on what kind of guns you can get. It seems you admit California does not enforce enough, but they don't even have a licensing system

The laws in CA are not enforced by the courts. Cops arrest, prosecutors and judges do not do their job. They are also under funded, which is another issue altogether.

I gave you a example of how strict laws do not do too much. It is more about people and their environment and class. Drug and low income communities have more violence in spite of strict gun laws. San Bernardino and SLC is a very good example, which you ignored completely.

What will licensing do in these low income communities? You can't compare other countries to our country, we are different?

I will ask one more time, do you really believe that we should not have any guns?

[_The CCC]

Themis wrote...So? That does nothing about what I said that laws can still help reduce the numbers. I do think the war on drugs has been a failure and changes need to be made.

"So?" You don't care and demand more laws for a problem that kills and destroys the life's of far more people than gun violence does?

What laws and changes need to be made on the war on drugs?

Ya, you asked and I answered. It's not my fault you have ignored it and other peoples suggestions. One great idea is licensing.

And every law you said, we have here in Ca and other states? And I asked what other laws? Now you say licensing? I am not aware of any state that does not required all guns to be registered? Are you saying everybody has to have a license apart from registering a firearm?

Should we also create a law that people should be licensed before they drive, so they don't drive drunk?

You say lack of enforcement. I would agree if laws are not being enforced. Laws don't work well if they are not. Also, California is not a country, so it's borders are not guarded from the rest of the US. How many guns is only one factor in gun related deaths. There are more suicides using guns then homicides. You cannot get a gun very easily in Canada, but if you are a responsible law abiding citizen you can. Some might be surprised on what kind of guns you can get. It seems you admit California does not enforce enough, but they don't even have a licensing system

The laws in CA are not enforced by the courts. Cops arrest, prosecutors and judges do not do their job. They are also under funded, which is another issue altogether.

I gave you a example of how strict laws do not do too much. It is more about people and their environment and class. Drug and low income communities have more violence in spite of strict gun laws. San Bernardino and Salt Lake City is a very good example, which you ignored completely.

What will licensing do in these low income communities? You can't compare other countries to our country, we are different?

I will ask one more time, do you really believe that we should not have any guns?

Courts can't enforce the law. What they can do is adjudicate guilt or innocence in violations of law, and at higher court levels if the government followed the law in the arrest, and trial.

Non Sequitur.

Firearm registration is illegal in the US. We can regulate the manufacture, trade, possession, transfer, record keeping, transport, and destruction of firearms, ammunition, and firearms accessories, but not register them. You can have as many firearms as you can afford. The only limits are on automatic firearms(Machine Guns) and weapons of mass destruction.

Yes licensing can be an effective tool in decreasing the number of firearms related deaths in this country. We license drivers of automobiles when used on the public roads and highways to help prevent those that can not and/or will not drive safely. Further cars have far more purposes than just killing. We can adn should do the same with firearms.

Non Sequitur, and areas of strict enforcement of gun laws are less likely to have gun violence than areas of lax enforcement of gun laws.
SEE http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... o/1969227/

We can/do compare counties within states, and between states and other local area states. IE; Arizona has relatively weak laws while California has relatively strong laws. There is no law against transporting your legally acquired firearms across state lines.

Licensing is a separate issue from possession. I have never argued for the banning of firearms.

[_Themis]

There's already a plan. It's not our fault you are ignorant of the issues here. This is why trump is doing well within the Republican race ATM. I have some faith he will be rejected by most of them, but he has been doing some damage and helping to make things worse. People who support him tend to be very ignorant of what is going on, and very racist and intolerant. Not things that help to create peace and understanding. If Trump were to win and do the things he says I suspect it may be time for people to go into their bomb shelters if they have one.

Then what is the plan? Who is "our" above?

I know Obama met yesterday at the pentagon yesterday to discuss a plan, which I have not read about yet?

Not sure why got on a Trump rant when I ask you a specific question about the war on terror, whicj you did not answer?

I have as have others. Are you really ignorant of what is going on. They are being bombed, training of soldiers is going on, and supplying groups that will fight against them. There progress has been halted and they are slowly losing. Maybe the plan is not perfect, but what do you suggest. Send 100k ground troops in? Most countries have not wanted to get involved in Syria because they understand what a mess it would be for them. The only real hope is to get some of the different sides to agree on a peace deal. Then ISIL can be defeated easier, with a less divided Syria. Why don't you say what you would like or you will just be seen as those on the far right who can do nothing more then attack Obama over everything.

[_Themis]

"So?" You don't care and demand more laws for a problem that kills and destroys the life's of far more people than gun violence does?

What laws and changes need to be made on the war on drugs?

I never said I don't care. You are just trying to distract with separate issues instead of dealing with the gun issue. Over 30K lives are lost to guns each year. Sure drugs and alcohol can be related to it. How many die each year from Islamic terrorism in the US. People have shown the number to be a fraction of all gun related deaths. Since you say drugs and alcohol kill even more, which is a the greater threat to the US?

by the way I would decriminalize personal drug use. Use our resources to help the addict and keep more people from becoming one. Putting them in jail is not working.

And every law you said, we have here in Ca and other states? And I asked what other laws? Now you say licensing? I am not aware of any state that does not required all guns to be registered? Are you saying everybody has to have a license apart from registering a firearm?

Should we also create a law that people should be licensed before they drive, so they don't drive drunk?

I am not aware of any state that requires all guns to be registered. Even Canada no longer requires this. A licensing system would require one to be free of a criminal record in regards to gun ownership and free of mental problems that would make one a risk. The other is it would require one to show they know how to safely use and store guns and ammo.

The laws in CA are not enforced by the courts. Cops arrest, prosecutors and judges do not do their job. They are also under funded, which is another issue altogether.

Laws have to be enforced to be effective.

I gave you a example of how strict laws do not do too much. It is more about people and their environment and class. Drug and low income communities have more violence in spite of strict gun laws. San Bernardino and Salt Lake City is a very good example, which you ignored completely.

What will licensing do in these low income communities? You can't compare other countries to our country, we are different?

Sorry but the US is not that different. You can look at high crime areas of other nations with responsible gun laws. We see that the number of guns is much less. Guns are very easy to get in the US. They are the major source of illegal guns in Mexico.

I will ask one more time, do you really believe that we should not have any guns?

And I will say again no.

[_Markk]

I never said I don't care. You are just trying to distract with separate issues instead of dealing with the gun issue. Over 30K lives are lost to guns each year. Sure drugs and alcohol can be related to it. How many die each year from Islamic terrorism in the US. People have shown the number to be a fraction of all gun related deaths. Since you say drugs and alcohol kill even more, which is a the greater threat to the US?

Drugs and alcohol are a much greater threat...it is not even close. 30K people die from guns, and drugs and alcohol are behind many if not most of those killings, and compounded the homeless, the broken homes, divorces and relationships ruined...it is not even close.

by the way I would decriminalize personal drug use. Use our resources to help the addict and keep more people from becoming one. Putting them in jail is not working.

We don't put drug attics in jail, we put them in jail when they commit crimes. take a drive on San Pedro ave in downtown LA, where drugs and alcohol are basically legal, and free counseling available, and tell me how it s working. So what you are saying is make it easier for people to get addicted and then spend tax payer money to tell them it is bad to take drugs? Simply incredible.

I don't now if you have ever had an addiction or not, but it just doesn't work that way Themis. Drugs and alcohol make you stupid and incapable of making decisions for your life. Every kid in America knows to "just say no"...it does not work. What works is a caring mother and father that educate their children. A government telling you it is okay to take it, and then when you are addicted telling you it is bad? Do you really believe that is the answer?

Do you understand what drugs like speed and heroin do to a person? And you want to make it legal?

2.5 million people will die world wide from alcohol this year.

You have not addressed my question between SLC and San Bernardino...why?