NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS planet'!

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_ldsfaqs
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NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS planet'!

Post by _ldsfaqs »

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/628524 ... -says-NASA

Here we go again.....

I just posted yesterday that NASA entirely REVERSES a "well established FACT" (according to liberals for the last 30 years) that Anarctic Ice was "melting" (after all there's the wonderful time lapse videos showing it, proof after all), they now say it's NOT melting but GAINING ICE..... but yet, they STILL try to claim that actual is ALSO causing global warming by some amazing rationalizing gymnastics. And like the "force" wave of the hand, them saying that causes the liberal brain to completely ignore the "clear truth" that was said before. After all, that you can screw up something like whether Ice is disappearing or not is telling.

Now we have NASA also entirely admiting that a part of pollution in the air is in fact a "cooling" agent, not a warming agent, and that they haven't done enough study to determine that cooling effect. But that's not all..... they do exactly like they did above, and instead try to claim it's STILL WARMING! Not only that, but the numbers are WORSE then they previously thought. The utter gymnastics of that is astounding.

by the way, those of us actual intelligent people already knew pollution was actually a "cooler" not a heater, because pollution especially if it's seen blocks out the Suns rays. Now, it's true in some select geography's such as a city in a Mountain range hole, that can also "trap" heat from the city, but that's only temporary and it's certainly not wide spread through the world, and city's just don't get that hot for very long. The hotest city, you block the sun some, it's going to fairly quick get colder. But more importantly, a hot city isn't "global warming".... LOL

Anyway, if you guys can't see yet how much you've been coned by these so-called "scientists" all these years, then there is simply no hope for you, you are tossed to and fro by whatever people say, not having a brain of your own.

Here are some telling quotes of what they admit....

"Because earlier studies do not account for what amounts to a net cooling effect for parts of the northern hemisphere, predictions for TCR and ECS have been lower than they should be."

The study found existing models for climate change had been too simplistic and did not account for these factors.

"As part of that calculation, researchers have relied on simplifying assumptions when accounting for the temperature impacts of climate drivers other than carbon dioxide, such as tiny particles in the atmosphere known as aerosols, for example.

"The assumptions made to account for these drivers are too simplistic and result in incorrect estimates of TCR and ECS."
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_hagoth7
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Re: NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS plan

Post by _hagoth7 »

I might have to reassess my opinion of NASA.
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_ldsfaqs
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Re: NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS plan

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Not just NASA, but the initial article was both NASA and the NOAA.
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_Res Ipsa
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Re: NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS plan

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Hagoth, you might want to reassess your opinion of The Daily Express. If you want to understand the Shindell paper from 2014, you might want to take a look at this article from the Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... y-shindell The descriptions of the studies in the OP are not accurate.
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_Analytics
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Re: NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS plan

Post by _Analytics »

ldsfaqs wrote:by the way, those of us actual intelligent people already knew pollution was actually a "cooler" not a heater, because pollution especially if it's seen blocks out the Suns rays. Now, it's true in some select geography's such as a city in a Mountain range hole, that can also "trap" heat from the city, but that's only temporary and it's certainly not wide spread through the world, and city's just don't get that hot for very long. The hotest city, you block the sun some, it's going to fairly quick get colder. But more importantly, a hot city isn't "global warming".... LOL

Anyway, if you guys can't see yet how much you've been coned by these so-called "scientists" all these years....


With all due respect, are you sure you aren't in over your head here? The article you quoted is talking about a paper published in Nature this month. Here is the abstract:

Marvel, K., G.A. Schmidt, R.L. Miller, and L. Nazarenko, 2015: Implications for climate sensitivity from the response to individual forcings. Nature Clim. Change, early on-line, doi:10.1038/nclimate2888.

Climate sensitivity to doubled CO2 is a widely-used metric of the large-scale response to external forcing. Climate models predict a wide range for two commonly used definitions: the transient climate response (TCR: the warming after 70 years of CO2 concentrations that rise at 1% per year), and the equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS: the equilibrium temperature change following a doubling of concentrations). Many observational datasets have been used to constrain these values, including temperature trends over the recent past, inferences from paleo-climate and process-based constraints from the modern satellite era. However, as the IPCC recently reported, different classes of observational constraints produce somewhat incongruent ranges. Here we show that climate sensitivity estimates derived from recent observations must account for the efficacy of each forcing active during the historical period. When we use single forcing experiments to estimate these efficacies and calculate climate sensitivity from the observed twentieth-century warming, our estimates of both TCR and ECS are revised upward compared to previous studies, improving the consistency with independent constraints.


If you really think you are intelligent and this team of NASA researchers that published this in Nature are not, and if you really think you understand the subtleties of their observations better than they do, please share your intelligence with the world and submit your views for publication. For your convenience, here is a link for details on how to submit a manuscript:

http://mts-nclim.nature.com/cgi-bin/mai ... structions
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_Res Ipsa
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Re: NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS plan

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Oopsie. I misread the date on the article linked in the OP, and thought this was about an earlier study on the same subject from last year. (Sindell 2014). This newest study builds on Sindell 2014, so the article I linked to from the Guardian provides a good explanation of the issues addressed in these studies.

The news article from a UK tabloid linked in the OP displays no understanding of what the study was actually about or what it actually showed. Both the Sindell 2014 study and the recent study attempt to reconcile a discrepancy between attempts to measure what's called the equilibrium climate response resulting from a doubling of CO2 levels. ECR derived from paleoclimate data is higher than ECR derived from data over the last 150 years. Sindell 2014 suggested that the discrepancy could be resolved by the fact that different types of forcing worked at different speeds. The recent study attempts to take those differences into account.

Climate models recognize that burning fossil fuels create different forcings. The release of CO2 causes the atmosphere to heat up. The release of particulate pollution has a couple of different effects. Because the particles absorb heat, they have a heating effect. Because they block UV rays from hitting the ground, they have a cooling effect. When they leave the atmosphere, they darken locations like the ice caps, resulting in heating. If I'm recalling correctly, the latest IPCC reports list the net effect of particulates as negative. However, the effect of CO2 emission on the equilibrium climate response is much greater than the effect of the particulates.

The new paper doesn't change any of this. However, it takes into account the fact that CO2 is distributed relatively uniformly in the atmosphere around the earth but that particulates are concentrated in the areas where the pollution occurs. They are located over the land, which reacts more rapidly to forcing than locations over water, and they occur mainly in the northern hemisphere. (I'm looking at you, China).

So, what does this mean? The previous attempts to determine ECR from recent historical data did not take into account differences in the speed of response to different forcings. That means that they didn't incorporate the fact that the cooling from particulate pollution happens faster than the warming from CO2. As a result, they underestimated the amount of cooling from particulates that has been occurring, which led them to predict too small of a value for ECR. When the speed of response to forcings is taken into account, the discrepancy between ECR from paleoclimate and ECR from recent history is resolved.

Is the paper "right"? I don't know. It's a paper that breaks some pretty new ground, so it's always best to see how it fares both in post-publication peer review and in later papers. It's main significance is to illustrate how science works. As our ability to gather and process data on climate expands, scientists attempt to refine their understanding of how specific systems operate. Hypotheses are made, papers are published, and understanding increases -- sometimes by leaps and bounds, other times by fits and starts.

What the study does not say is what the headline for this thread claims: that burning fossil fuel has a net cooling effect on the atmosphere. The total effect of the CO2 emissions far outweighs the total effect of the particulate emissions. All that the paper addresses is the relative speeds of the response to the forcings.

Here's is the press release from NASA: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/ea ... mperatures
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_hagoth7
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Re: NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS plan

Post by _hagoth7 »

Thanks Brad.

Very helpful.
Joseph Smith: "I don't blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I would not have believed it myself."
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Red pill: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/New Testament/acts/ ... ang=eng#10
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Re: NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS plan

Post by _The CCC »

_I have a question
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Re: NASA does it again.... Burning fossil fuels 'COOLS plan

Post by _I have a question »

I'm sure ldsfaqs will be along shortly to correct his thread title.....
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