Say what you will about Bernie Sanders

[_Kevin Graham]

There's almost no chance Obama actually changed his mind on the subject of gay marriage. For one, he was is an ivy-league educated professor who held office for Democrats in one of the more liberal districts in the country. He'd be an extreme demographic anomaly to not support gay marriage by 2008.

But how many Ivy-league educated professors were long time members of a Christian Church whose pastor said things like, “Are 44 million Americans with no health care insurance less important than ‘gay marriage’"? (Jeremiah Wright, 2005)

Your argument seems to be that Obama always supported gay marriage, but he pretended not to in his earlier political years. I just don't see why, if an entire nation has obviously evolved on an issue, that it has to be a crazy "coincidence" when people in politics do as well. They don't exist in vacuums; they're part of society as well. This is supported by his memoir six years earlier when he wrote, “I was reminded that it is my obligation not only as an elected official in a pluralistic society, but also as a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided.” That sounds like someone evolving back to common sense after letting his mind get tainted by religious dogma.

I could be wrong, but I just remember his interview and he came across to me as genuine and I just remember thinking to myself, he isn't getting anything politically for this. He's just moving Left like the rest of the country has been doing.

[_Kevin Graham]

Obama came out in support of marriage equality in May 2012 when the republican field was trying hard to out crazy one another over civil liberty issues. Just making sure we keep the facts in front of us.

Again, this sounds a lot like the conservative narrative against the Clinton's going back decades. It's a meme away from being something your mom would have posted on her Facebook during the Benghazi hearings.

Why not some point or other as to how you think Bernie will actually enact Dodd Frank better than Hillary would be able to? I'm not bagging on Bernie. If he wins the nomination he has my vote without question right now. But I don't see what makes him the preferred candidate when it comes down to doing what's in the job description. Sometimes it may as well be people saying outright they like a person's smile or would prefer to drink a beer with one candidate over any other.

The Dodd Frank question seems simple as well as meaningful. So...?

I'm not sure why for you, the implementation of Dodd-Frank will be the deal breaker. Sanders has made it perfectly clear on a number of occasions that Hillary thinks Dodd-Frank is all that's needed despite the fact that it has been shown to be too weak. Basically, it has no teeth. The Banks are larger than ever before and Sanders wants to pass another Glass-Steagall and break them up. Hillary doesn't want to do that because she is owned by Wall Street. Her plan is weak to say the least.

[_Some Schmo]

Why not some point or other as to how you think Bernie will actually enact Dodd Frank better than Hillary would be able to?

My answer to this is that Bernie would actually try to do something to mitigate the "too big to fail" banks whereas I'm not the least bit convinced Hillary's motivated to do so.

[_subgenius]

But the man has been consistent with the same message for decades. And the hair is genius.

Unlike some folks who tend to "evolve" with the political winds...

Dictators have the same quality...they hold to their message regardless of what the people want.

The beauty of a representational form of government is that it "reflects" the people, not "directs".
Bernie's persistence is admirable only in as much as it reflects what the people have wanted - or rather have "always" wanted.

An immutable position is not really the most desirable quality in a politician...they should always sway to whatever wind their constituency blows their way.


and yes, superficial qualities like hair should be on your mind in the voting booth...you were made to be a democrat.

[_ajax18]

He's talking about guest workers he isn't attacking immigrants. I corrected you on this point before but you seem unwilling to learn.

And his 2013 statement sounds just like his 2007 remark so how he evolved?

Do you agree with Bernie's quotes I listed?

[_Kevin Graham]

Dictators have the same quality...they hold to their message regardless of what the people want.

Dictators are typically egotistical, tyrannical, narcissistic and bigoted. That is a Republican's wet dream of a candidate. Consistency and honesty are hardly qualities of dictators.

The beauty of a representational form of government is that it "reflects" the people, not "directs".

Sanders has not been an elected official for more than 30 years because he "directs" the people. He's not winning in all the national polls because people don't support his positions. You're an idiot.

Bernie's persistence is admirable only in as much as it reflects what the people have wanted - or rather have "always" wanted.

Bernie's persistence is admirable in that he says what he means and means what he says. The idea of a self-proclaimed Socialist as a viable candidate for President would have been laughable 5 years ago, and even more so 30 years ago.

An immutable position is not really the most desirable quality in a politician

It is when they are good positions to have, when they benefit the many and not the few. Are you saying the immutable Republican position on "limited government" isn't a good thing in your view? Or what about the Norquist pledge to never increase taxes no matter what?

...they should always sway to whatever wind their constituency blows their way.

If you really believed that they you'd have no problem with all Republicans moving to the Left since that is the direction the country has been headed for years. But we both know you're full of crap.

[_Kevin Graham]

Do you agree with Bernie's quotes I listed?

We've been through this before, and you were misrepresenting what he said as if he were attacking illegal immigrants. Why would I have a problem with his comments understood in their proper context?

[_ajax18]

So you're saying that guest workers who will work for lower wages than American workers will drive down wages but illegal immigrants who will work for lower wages will not drive down wages?

I'll take that as a yes. I guess it makes sense in the liberal economic mind.

[_subgenius]

Dictators have the same quality...they hold to their message regardless of what the people want.

Dictators are typically egotistical, tyrannical, narcissistic and bigoted. That is a Republican's wet dream of a candidate. Consistency and honesty are hardly qualities of dictators.

honesty was not mentioned in the OP, only consistency...and on that quality Dictators do share with Bernie. To propose that Dictators are pliable, and inconsistent is absurd. Dictators are so predictable, we have a word for them.....Dictator.

Sanders has not been an elected official for more than 30 years because he "directs" the people. He's not winning in all the national polls because people don't support his positions. You're an idiot.

Lindsey Graham has also had a long political career - so obviously he shares the same qualities as Bernie.

Bernie's persistence is admirable in that he says what he means and means what he says. The idea of a self-proclaimed Socialist as a viable candidate for President would have been laughable 5 years ago, and even more so 30 years ago.

It is still laughable today, just watch the guy....and perhaps recent marijuana legislation helps his campaign.
His only successful platform is "I'm not Hillary"
But
glad to see you support Bernie's long record of supporting US military adventurism.

If you really believed that they you'd have no problem with all Republicans moving to the Left since that is the direction the country has been headed for years. But we both know you're full of s***.

I have never objected on this thread to any direction any party has been moving - or not moving-towards.
The country has moved left...moved right...and stood still as any moment in history as proven. Which goes back to my point about political winds and how in spite of the ebb/flow of the people through history- Bernie has stood stagnant and unchanging in his position because he is a wannabe dictator...he knows better, let him take care of everything.
So, Bernie is simply taking on the broken-clock strategy of - "if i stay at 9 o'clock, eventually I'll be viewed as "correct""....yep...consistency

[_ajax18]

Bernie's persistence is admirable in that he says what he means and means what he says. The idea of a self-proclaimed Socialist as a viable candidate for President would have been laughable 5 years ago, and even more so 30 years ago.

The left has coined the term "Democratic socialism," to deal with the fact that socialism still would not sell. The numbers are high but not enough people are dependent on government handouts to sell socialism yet.