The awkward marriage of conservative religionists and Trump

[_beastie]

I’ve been thinking about why religious conservatives are so supportive of Trump, a proud adulterer who appears to have little actual beliefs other than self-aggrandizement. Obviously it’s because Trump is a republican, and that’s the most important issue. But why are so many (not all, by any means) conservative religionists so devoted to the Republican Party? Certainly part of it has to do with the fact that, post-civil rights, the Republican Party made a concerted effort to build their base by blatantly appealing (and sometimes even creating, see: abortion) to social issues, but I think there’s more to it than that.

Many religious conservatives hold beliefs that have been flatly disproved by science. (age of the earth, “adam and eve”, the flood, etc) Those scientific findings have been widely reported by the mainstream media. Even when scientists and/or the mainstream media refrain from using pejorative terms to describe people who insist on clinging to these discredited ideas, the message from science and the reporting media is clear: you’re stupid. They have felt belittled and ridiculed for decades. So the Republican Party takes advantage of this resentment by building a story about how you can’t trust the mainstream media or “elites” (a.k.a., scientists and other professionals) anyway. They are blinded by bias and lie.

That’s part of the reason Trump appeals to them so much. He reaffirms a belief that allows them to feel good about believing the earth is 6,000 years old (etc). The people who have made you feel stupid all these years are lying liberals.

So they vote for the people that affirm this idea, even if those same people then spend most of their energy implementing agendas that actually hurt their voters. (see: health care repeal, tax breaks for the wealthiest) I doubt that most religious conservatives are wedded to these basic Republican ideas at all. After all, Trump certainly didn’t espouse those ideas in his campaign. But they’ll tolerate it because Trump and the Republican Party allow them to feel “smart” while clinging to, frankly, nonsensical ideas about the world and how it works.
And yes, I know that by using the word “nonsensical” and implying that these ideas really are stupid, I’m feeding that whole narrative. Somehow the Democratic Party has to find a way to appeal to these sensitive snowflakes. I guess I’m just too blunt for that. Good thing I’m not in charge.

[_The CCC]

If facts make someone feel stupid. None of us has any hope. Far better to go back living in the caves being afraid of things that go bump in the night.

[_Maksutov]

There are folks who equate religion with conservatism with Republicanism. There are other folks who equate secularism with liberalism and with Democrat ideology. While those groups exist, they don't comprise everyone or the universe of possibilities. There are plenty of variations and interpenetrations of categories and questions about the validity of the categories themselves. The construction of identity is what we're seeing. About as clean and orderly as sausage making.

[_honorentheos]

I hang out with mostly progressive millenial types while working with a fair number of conservative business types. Religious views among all are so incredibly varied.

The conservatives include a CEO whose spiritual views are a blend of Native American spiritual beliefs merged into his methodist upbringing. He isn't one to believe in creationism, favors evolution theory but I would argue he leans higher in EQ than IQ if still well above average in intelligence with a Harvard post-grad degree. His conservatism is most often expressed as dislike of liberal "idiot green peace types" in his words who he views as lacking a basic understanding of how the world really works, and an inherent opposition to what he appears to think of as government intrusion into business. He has gay and lesbian friends, but he also loves hunting having grown up hunting in a rural community. He views climate change as real if he focuses on the financial consequences of it. He's pro-legalization of MJ, if he doesn't use peyote or shrooms now I'd be suprised, and while he'd never say it this way is probably closer to libertarian but seems to dislike libertarian politicians like the Pauls.

Another conservative is the head of a department, and is every bit the "Guns, Gays, and God" political opponent of liberal positions.

Most fall somewhere between those two.

But the liberals include way too many nuts to justify the idea there is a qualitative difference between liberals and conservatives. The liberals include crystal users, new agey types into some crazy non-scientific crap, most don't eat glutten and couldn't name a book they've read front to back in years. The act of reading a book is such a novelty that reading stupid fiction, so long as it's the right type, is a status marker. But to discuss the book content with most is to find out being literate in a Facebook "like", self-aggrandizing moral system reduces the apparent value of reading to liking or disliking something because of how authentic it seemed compared to their own worldview rather than as a source for exploring different views. It's actually a huge pet peeve of mine now. There should be a term for this condition. Anyway. There are OMing nuts, at least one swinging couple that is open about it, and most conversations will inevitably turn to how smart, educated, and refined present company is in taste compared to the non-present conservatives who would never visit said location or talk about said subjects, etc., etc. It's almost like talking about the weather, if the small talk dies it's an easy go to subject sure to be non-controversial - well, I crap on it sometimes when I'm tired of how idiotic is sounds. I'm the only vet in the group, and can't adequately express how the predictably negative the facial expression comes across when someone first finds out. They collectively hold to a militant morality they enforce so strictly with intense passive aggressive boundary maintence that it rivals anything I've seen in Mormonism but it's directed at food, exercise and hobbies instead of Nephites, chastity and the word of wisdom. Figurative dick measuring is very much a thing in these groups. More than among conservatives I spend time with, actually. But I can't tell you how many times I've watched some documentary on Netflix or the like one suggested only to come back and burst their bubble on how BS and biased the documentary was when I had gone into it very interested in the subject with a leaning towards the position it was advocating.

Apparently we're all stupid which is part of why we think the other guy is the stupid one because if we're smart and they don't get it, well...

So when someone tells me that my smoking of cigars will kill me someday, I tell them it's part of what I enjoy about them. I've passed on my genes and played the role biology gave me. I'm a dick, people are assholes. “F” it.

ETA: The first episode of Black Mirror's third season made for interesting conversations precisely because of how close it hit home among a particular group of friends. It made for a few inside jokes. Probably the one Black Mirror episode I would have no problem recommending to just about any adult.

[_The CCC]

I seldom agree with William Kristol on matters political, but he is one smart dude. If someone wants to believe in magic crystals, pyramid power, etc., etc., etc., be my guest. Same with someone that wants to believe God is a conservative Republican, white, male, American, etc., etc., etc.. I think they are both nuts.

[_Gadianton]

But then how do you explain this. An important milestone in my Chapel Mormon upbringing around that early teen age when I believed but wasn't really into it, was listening to a know your religion series tape about the Last Days. That was exciting and kindled my interest in the Church, and an important theme for Last Days researchers was the world going to hell in every way, including environmentally. In the Last Days there shall be "great pollutions". Factories and the greed of man was cited as polluting the earth. The most important book for Chapel Mormons outside of the Book of Mormon and possibly Mormon Doctrine, a book every Mormon home has, is Prophecy, Key to the Future. Here, read for yourself:

https://books.google.com/books?id=3Rc47 ... on&f=false

He goes on and on talking about season changes and water shortages and pollution and citing one science article after another to make the case the world is screwed, which it needs to be, in order to build up to the final battle and all that and Christ's return. So the #1 right-wing denial, anything to do with environment at risk, is not a long-held belief. True Rabid Mormon fundamentalism is backed up by science in this instance. The first inkling I had of the opposing view was in 1990, a seminary teacher out of nowhere interpreted a D&C scripture that claims the earth's resources are plentiful for man, or something like that, to mean everything we've heard about fossil fuels running out is false. Rush was just barely getting started at that time, right? So I have no idea where this came from but that guy was an idiot and surely wouldn't have thought of it himself. Conservative Mormon adults must have been in a shift at that time.

[_Maksutov]

But the liberals include way too many nuts to justify the idea there is a qualitative difference between liberals and conservatives.

And it seems that every culture has its equivalents, although the distribution varies along each curve. Look at power structures and wealth concentrations and change dynamics, not some cheap coat of ideological paint.

[_The CCC]

I'm a front row of the Chapel type Mormon, and know full well the name of the Church. That being said I've never endorsed everything any member of the Church claims.

[_honorentheos]

But the liberals include way too many nuts to justify the idea there is a qualitative difference between liberals and conservatives.

And it seems that every culture has its equivalents, although the distribution varies along each curve. Look at power structures and wealth concentrations and change dynamics, not some cheap coat of ideological paint.

That's such a great point.

Along those lines, our daughter's boyfriend is 1st generation American whose family came from Mexico. His parents speak English as a second language and are great people. Truth be told, I really enjoy spending time with the families we're friends with mostly through my daughter's friendship circle who are hispanic, often not super well off but hard working and taking care of their little corner of life. I don't think politics comes up ever in our conversations, to be honest. Usually we're busy cooking, playing a game, and talking about family stuff.

I also think there is something to be said for geography being a net benefit in forming social structures. Our neighborhood is a gentrifying one so our demographic is all over the place from original home owners going back four or more decades to families and singles buying in and improving. And the social dynamic is mostly driven by a couple of the old neighborhood historians who do a lot to organize block parties, spend time out front of their house talking to people on walks, and otherwise forming the basis for a community where it might not otherwise have been maintained. I have an idea of how each of my neighbors likely votes but in the end it's so far in the background compared to all of the other stuff going on.

Perhaps that's part of what I find irritating about the peer group friends I associate with when I do get irritated about something along the lines of my post earlier. The identity of what makes the group a group includes having bought into the right ideologies and lifestyle to even be a member. And frankly, the OP reminded me of the worst of this and it's lack of a solution space that wasn't just masturbatory us v. them thinking.

[_Jersey Girl]

I read the OP probably 3 times and wasn't sure how to respond to it. I'm not okay with slicing America and it's people down the middle, labeling them and assigning characteristics to each group.

I'm a registered Republican, I vote for whomever I please regardless of part affiliation, I'm Pro-Life and Pro-Choice, I want a strong military, I do want to "bomb the crap out of ISIS" if it's possible and I want peace, I believe in being my brothers keeper, I don't want the planet polluted for money, it doesn't make sense to me that the earth is 6K years old and I believe my God is responsible for it.

I don't even know what to say here. I honestly don't. I don't have the answer to everything and I'm skeptical of folks who think they do.

Were the only people who voted for Trump Republicans? Surely that cannot be so.