Took a Trip Through the Appalachians This Weekend

[_subgenius]

Nah, it is still you being prejudicial
- because you assume a certain cursory opinion about what "prosperity" means to Southern Appalachian people....which is why you only speak about "seeing" trailers as a definite sign of "not-prosperity" because people that live in trailers are suited more for the butt of your 6 figure income jokes and not much for anything else. Your obvious understanding of Southern Appalachian culture is something you consider valid because you have simply (and only) "walked by it".

So, yeah you had an experience but it was far from a knowledgeable experience. I have flown over many parts of this country and hardly hold such an experience as a qualification to "know" about the people and places that I pass by...but i am happy to learn that such an intellectual osmosis rests with you.

Well, I lived in Northern Georgia, NC, and Northern Alabama for ~13 or 14 years. I have a pretty good take on the region.

- Doc

Northern Alabama ain't Southern Appalachia (FYI, i spen a few years in Florence AL, a.k.a. "the armpit of the South")....and gee, according to KG, living in Northern Georgia is living in Atlanta - so there is that.

To be fair, truly, Northern Georgia is more akin to Blue Ridge mountains, which geographically are linked into Southern Appalachia, but are quite distinct culturally, socially, etc.

And to continue this trend of "qualifications", I was born/raised in Upper East Tennessee with paterfamilias descending from Unicoi, TN and his people back into to Yancey, NC...whereas materfamilias arrived on Ellis Island from San Juan PR in 1952 and her people going back to what is known as Classic Taino notwithstanding any yet to be discovered muddying of the genetic water by Columbus and company.

So perhaps you will forgive my insistence that "prosperity", being a subjective term, often only appears in the context of prejudice when being used about anyone other than oneself.

yeah, in my experience with other parts of the nation - you should have moved to the area

[_The CCC]

Appalachia does indeed include northern Alabama.
SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

So perhaps you will forgive my insistence that "prosperity", being a subjective term, often only appears in the context of prejudice when being used about anyone other than oneself.

yeah, in my experience with other parts of the nation - you should have moved to the area

I made the qualification earlier in the thread that poverty/prosperity is relative and dependent on location.

I suppose one would have to define what the Appalachia means to them. If you're going to include metropolitan areas like Pittsburgh, Chattanooga, Huntsville, Lexington (?), and Birmingham then their economies are pretty diversified. I think what you're witnessing, or witnessed, is a pretty historical narrative that's never really changed. Also, what is poverty? 1917 Appalachia is a world of difference from 2017 Appalachia. Anyway, if coals goes away all you're really going to see is an outflow of people to other areas to look for work.

- Doc

ETA: I just want to make sure you understand that the Blue Ridge mountains are located in the Appalachian region, no?

- Doc

[_MeDotOrg]

First of all, thank you Schmo for the OP. Nicely written.

Living in Coastal California, I rarely see the type of fall colors you have back east. One of my fantasies has been to take a car trip through New England in the fall. But some of the scenes from the Great Smoky Mountains look spectacular. So I guess I'll start in New England and work my way south, and get down into Appalachia.

[_The CCC]

I lived in Huntsville; Alabama for 4 years. Visiting places all over the East. The Blue Ridge Highway is a beautiful drive.

[_subgenius]

So perhaps you will forgive my insistence that "prosperity", being a subjective term, often only appears in the context of prejudice when being used about anyone other than oneself.

yeah, in my experience with other parts of the nation - you should have moved to the area

I made the qualification earlier in the thread that poverty/prosperity is relative and dependent on location.

nope, your first post on this thread was a very non-subjective, albeit rhetorical, statement - "Uh. Has the Appalachia ever been prosperous?"

ETA: I just want to make sure you understand that the Blue Ridge mountains are located in the Appalachian region, no?

- Doc

I made that clear distinction when i noted how the Blue Ridge mountains were indeed "geographically" part of the Appalachian mountains but the context of "prosperity" applied to a cultural, social, and economic sector that does not include the Blue Ridge mountains of North Georgia. And in fact the "Blue Ridge", geographically travels farther north than does the context of this thread.
Note that the Appalachian mountains run all the way to Newfoundland and arguably cross the Atlantic Ocean to England...so while the geographic connection can be made quite easily across several cultures and levels of "prosperity", i dare say your "experience" with regards to the claim in the OP was a bit more narrow in geographic scope - correct?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Note that the Appalachian mountains run all the way to Newfoundland and arguably cross the Atlantic Ocean to England...so while the geographic connection can be made quite easily across several cultures and levels of "prosperity", i dare say your "experience" with regards to the claim in the OP was a bit more narrow in geographic scope - correct?

Well, yeah. But to discount my observations is probably as dismissive as was my initial statement, although I stand by it. It's no mystery the Appalachia has been historically depressed economically. Sure, once you get into the larger cities it changes since they're centers of trade and commerce, but my observation was meant to apply to the various small towns, dells, farms, communes, and homesteads I observed when I was out and about.

I don't know. I'm not overly committed to my statement anyway. If you want to believe or assert the Appalachia isn't economically stagnated or isn't lagging behind or whatever you're free to feel that way. I will say this. When I was canoeing the Shenandoah river (around 150 miles of it) it wasn't unusual see million dollar homes/farms on the river. Much of the valley is doing well, BUT once you get into the towns you see the usual depressed economies. Most of it seems to hinge on farming, tourism, and government operations.

- Doc

[_Some Schmo]

First of all, thank you Schmo for the OP. Nicely written.

Living in Coastal California, I rarely see the type of fall colors you have back east. One of my fantasies has been to take a car trip through New England in the fall. But some of the scenes from the Great Smoky Mountains look spectacular. So I guess I'll start in New England and work my way south, and get down into Appalachia.

Thanks, MDO.

When I consider the various places I've been in this country, I think it's remarkable how many are picturesque. I've been up in the New England area a few times, and every time I'm there, I marvel at the scenery. But now I've seen the Appalachians - gorgeous. The rocky mountains in Colorado - stunning. Salt Lake valley is a pretty as it gets. The pacific north west - unreal. I've driven a few times through Alabama - a wonderland of deep green hills. Hilton Head, SC - great place for a vacation.

It really is a beautiful country. I wonder if part of it is that I'm getting older and I'm just becoming more aware of it. Perhaps I'm just considering the landscape more.

But yes, your travel plan is solid, I think.

[_Gadianton]

I dropped $2.99 on the new coal documentary "From the Ashes". It was overtly anti-coal and anti-trump.

I believe they said there are now only 45k coal workers. It claimed that even if all the roadblocks were removed, the brightest future still has West Virginia in the bottom 5%. The biggest threat to coal is not EPA regulations, but the cheapness of natural gas. Coal is dirty. Even "clean coal" supported by everyone including Obama has failed; it's 25% more dirty for non-CO2 outputs and too expensive. It has been noted in this thread that people either don't relocate or retool their skills for a variety of reasons. The documentary claimed that, unsurprisingly, efforts to get other industries into west Virginia are blocked by the coal companies. They don't treat workers great to begin with and quick to cut jobs, but they want workers available for a low price if and when they are needed. They didn't go into this claim much, but a quick Google search shows that apparently, in addition to coal, those mountains have a crap load of wind. In 2009, an effort to build 164 wind turbines on "Coal River Mountain" was blocked that would have provided more jobs than the coal companies with permits for the land.

They said what the EPA thinks is decreasingly relevant, all the big tech companies like renewable energy, and so it's goodbye coal anyway in the near future. Even more interesting is that we're behind the curve on renewable energy. In my mind, I had this thought that we invest in solar and wind and great, while China beats us burning coal or whatever. It turns out that China heavily invests in renewable energy, and that they and India are expected to be the market leaders and not us.

At the end it showed there was some hope for getting experimental new industries into West Virginia but it's challenging, and Trump cut the budget for it.